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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

By this I mean Brits, Irish, Americans and so on.

Also what might cause misunderstandings between other foreign nationalities and Poles?

I'm not talking necessarily about language issues here.

Btw a positive approach would be much appreciated in this thread.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

culture, childhood, neighborhood..

i guess..Maciek G. edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 03:11
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

What kind of misunderstandings do we speak here?

For me a big misunderstanding is when somebody shouts at me instead speaking - like the southern nations would.
But it's rarely the case with those from the Anglo-Saxon culture.

So the way people communicate.
And that's very individual.
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Dariusz Tomczak

Dariusz Tomczak PONIEWAŻ OBECNIE
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

There are several issues at work here, to my mind.

Universal differences (common among different people)
Firstly: language which is something more than using words and expressions in a particular manner. To some extent language influences the way we perceive reality and behave with the respect to it.

Secondly: habitual forms of behaviour, social relations, every day realities which we take for granted and are unable or find very difficult to see differently when faced with different ones.

Thirdly: History, customs, traditions, all that is instilled in us during upbringing, education, socialisation.

Individual differences
1. Sense of humour.
2. Cognitive style (abstract vs concrete, visual vs verbal, reflective impulsive)
3. Personality traits
4 Age, social class, educational background etc.

To put it briefly when talking we not only use language but also our subjective reflection of reality alongside with some expectations, default values, hidden agendas (assumptions). Misunderstandings occur when they are different or implicit.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Cultural background most of all (we talked about it hundreds of times so I won`t repeat it) when the cultures are remote (e.g. Polish and Chinese).

But there are also misunderstandings between close friends. I think no language is as fast and flexible as our thinking and that`s the reason of miscommunication.

Online misunderstandings are very common, especially when you don`t know the person you`re chatting with. It`s more difficult to express your ideas in writing than in speaking and once you write something, it`s the other person`s good or ill will to make an effort to understand your intentions.Violetta P. edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 09:56
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

I guess the most serious problems arise when Poles take it for granted that they should befriend all foreigners, not taking into account what Dariusz has mentioned: personalities, sense of humor, different backgrounds etc., probably due to the fact that there had never been too many Westerners in Poland until recently.
Out of all the foreigners I've met in Poland (in the States it was a tad different, as I was surrounded by them and was actually a foreigner myself) I am friends with some, and these would be the ones I like or respect as human beings, not for the fact that they're British, Italian, or Danish. In fact, I sometimes find it easier to make friends with English-speaking people, but not because I try sucking up to them ;)

edit: I just read Violetta's post and must agree that a lot of the misunderstandings here are a result of "onlineness"; I used to clash with Warren, but talking to him IRL was a different experience altogether and now I am able to understand him better. We might not become best buddies though :DTatiana S. edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 09:29
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Lidia K.:
What kind of misunderstandings do we speak here?

The kind of arguments that have occurred on the Londyn forum recently.

I've noticed some people from that group joining anglosphere recently.

Why would people who speak English and have had extensive contact with Brits fall out with us?

Is it 'them' or is it 'us'?

And what can we do to improve the situation?
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

You could refrain from commenting on controversial issues. But then, what would be the point of internet forums? ;)
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Violetta P.:
Online misunderstandings are very common, especially when you don`t know the person you`re chatting with. It`s more difficult to express your ideas in writing than in speaking and once you write something, it`s the other person`s good or ill will to make an effort to understand your intentions.

You're much the same kind of person IRL as you are online.

As are most of us.

I'd say it's easier to be rude over the internet than it is IRL, however.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

warren whitmore:
Lidia K.:
What kind of misunderstandings do we speak here?

The kind of arguments that have occurred on the Londyn forum recently.

I've noticed some people from that group joining anglosphere recently.

Why would people who speak English and have had extensive contact with Brits fall out with us?

Is it 'them' or is it 'us'?

And what can we do to improve the situation?


Isn't it simply that they made their observation or expressed an opinion and were told that they were wrong?

If a person observes something, nobody can then tell them that they didn't observe it.
Furthermore, if they've formed an opinion based on their own experience and observations then again they aren't going to roll over and submit when someone tells them that it is wrong.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Steven H.:
Furthermore, if they've formed an opinion based on their own experience and observations then again they aren't going to roll over and submit when someone tells them that it is wrong.

Fair enough, Steve.

But could you imagine anyone saying they had to move house because of the Jews, for example?

Furthermore, can a third party have a more informed idea about what we say than ourselves?

Do you always take what others say at face value?warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 18:13
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Steven H.:
Fair enough, Steve.

But could you imagine anyone saying they had to move house because of the Jews, for example?

Are we calling her a liar?

About the Jews? My remark earlier was 'far-fetched'.
She opened up her comments by saying how nice most Brits were. Later she said that one person had made that comment about moving house.

Are Jews a massive visible presence in the UK?

Unless the person concerned were to live in Golders Green, it's pretty hard to see how the presence of a largely inconspicuous minority would trouble him.

I've never known the presence of a few Jews in the UK to bother anyone really in recent years, unless we happen to be talking about some Nazi loon here.

My conclusion would be that either she was talking to someone mad. Or she misunderstood or misheard something. Or else she made it up.
To say that some people make comments about 'bloody Pakis' is hardly a revelation either.

Of course it isn't.
Besides, we don't know what kind of people she works with or what area she lives in. I reckon that there are a lot of people who resent immigrants from Eastern Europe and probably express it too.

No doubt there are.

But what percentage of the British population would openly express such resentment?

Furthermore, can a third party have a more informed idea about
what we say than ourselves?

Though I keep touch daily with the press, weekly with my phone call home, and 2-3 times per year with my short visits, I haven't been a resident in the UK for 8 years. On top of that as a child I lived in a reasonably well-off area most of my life and even when I didn't apart from a short spell I mixed with students or graduates. Though I have my own ideas about what people are like across the spectrum of society I can't always dismiss what other people say.

I was thinking more about what had been written on the London forum than what Anna herself wrote here.

I don't live in the UK, but I spend about a month there every year.

I would describe some of my extended family as being working class, and I imagine their comments would be fairly typical of British people as a whole.

I've heard plenty of racist comments over my lifetime from English people, but surprisingly little resentment to those who move to the UK from Eastern Europe. Of course, this may change with time.
I've never been to or seen a gang-bang, but I can't say that they don't exist, nor can I even say that they are rare. I haven't got a clue.

IMHO, I've never led a particularly sheltered life in the UK. I've lived in different areas, muli-racial and mono-cultural, rich and poor, worked in different jobs, (some physical), and I think I've got a pretty good idea about what kind of comments an immigrant would be likely to hear.

Do you always take what others say at face value?

When I know with certainty that something is simply not a fact, I don't accept it, either telling the person to their face or keeping it to myself. Without any indicators that the person is insane or malicious I have to cautiously accept that anything somebody recounts to me is true.

I tend to take what others tell me with a pinch of salt.

Of course, sometimes I get things wrong.

For a start, that Anna said she was in Rugby. I had no reason to doubt it, but you did. I'm not sure why you did, but if you were wrong I think that this alone gave her grounds to get angry.

As she did not have any contacts, was not a member of any other groups, and had not made any previous posts, I suspected she might be someone's s.p. (sock puppet).

I may have been mistaken in this belief.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 19:18
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Anna, out of curiosity, how did you find this forum?warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 21.08.08 o godzinie 19:59
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?


And also out of curiosity, how do you feel you've come across to others since you started posting here?

use your right to express opinion and let me know, pls.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Do you honestly want to know how you come across to me personally in colloquial English?


do you honestly feel the need to tell me something about me in colloquial English? In that case, don't let yourself be disouraged.
I am sure that if I use another acerbic sentence it will come across to you personally like asking nicely.

I remind you again that my posts here were in reply to the question you yourself have asked, about the things that I personally know. No comment about all the English misbehaving.

So if encountering something you didn't like makes you feel the need to call out something personal in colloquial English, you only confirm the negative examples. gol-samobój.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

I'll say something using more formal language. You appear to me to be acutely lacking in self-awareness, and seem over-anxious to take offence, as in your anecdote concerning the police.


I am hot headed. I would never deny that. But at least if I were writting in Polish, I hope, you would be laughing your bum off... Not much of a rhetor, am I?

But it was not offence, it was great disappointment. I was just trying to help some poor bloke who got attacked.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

How does this sound to you Steve?

"I heard some Polish pijaks causing trouble under my flat where they broke a widow. I phoned the police to say what they looked like. You know what they did - they made me spell my name and address which isn't easy in Polish. By that time they'd gone away. So they told me to call them again when they came back. End of the conversation.

Now I could get angry about the police being anti-English and racist and so on. But personally I think the woman I spoke to was just ignorant. And the policewoman I spoke to must have been punished for her ignorance because she called me back to tell me how helpful I'd been. But by then I had decided I didn't want to speak to her, even on the phone."

Arrogant or what?
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Warren, I think you may have a problem with Poles joking in English ;)
It's not always so serious.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

Lidia K.:
Warren, I think you may have a problem with Poles joking in English ;)
It's not always so serious.

Maybe I do, but I don't really see the joke, just someone coming across as incredibly arrogant.

I had thought communism had done away with noble titles in Poland, dukes and duchesses and so on, but it seems I have much to learn.
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Temat: What causes misunderstandings between 'natives' and Poles?

What does 'rhetor' mean?
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