Temat: WOW!

Tatiana S.:

Andrzej Czopek:
Hey, wasn't Newton a famous scientist who came up with some famous laws? That was like LONG TIME AGO... They still seem to apply, strangely enough. Anyways, off to lunch. Oh, my bio-chemical conscience is telling me I have been neglecting my stomach :)

(the things you believe are AS OLD as the human civilization - just for the record) :)

I don't think ancient Egyptians believed in evolution, but if you say so... I'd be glad if they had. I don't understand why people find it so hard to at least consider the possibility of there being no "God".

Dear Tatiana,

First of all, as an open-minded freethinker, I want to tell you that I enjoy discussions on just about any subject. As a father of three, I also want to tell you that your post about the enjoyment you have from watching your son sleep warmed my heart (“heart” being everything that I am except for the ugly looks ;)) I used to watch my kids sleep a lot as well. There is something wonderfully soothing about it. You and I share a lot of emotions, feelings and possibly ideas as two fellow human beings.

Now, there are things that we approach differently – and that’s OK too. Here are some very loose observations that I would like you to ponder (only if you want to, having a teenage daughter at home, I learned to be content with being ignored ;))

I do not believe that science has to necessarily rule out the existence of God. You mentioned the ancient Egyptians. They had some marvelous technological advancements for the age they lived in. Some believed in God, some believed in gods, some were agnostics. The argument that a long time ago people did not know much about science, and therefore they had to be stuck with believing in God is a little weak to me, personally. Why? Because science is progressive, and the true science lovers should not dismiss anything that has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt. You and I cannot guarantee that 500 years from now, someone will not write on some forum “those 21st century people were so dumb! They didn’t know this and that!” After you and I are gone, the science we both respect today might discover something that will be in total opposition to what we believe today to be true.

I do not believe that believing in God is a criterion for being dumb and uneducated. People who make statements like that (not you), are simply ignorant (and often arrogant – a deadly combination). I promised myself not to go to google during writing this message, but from the top of my head I can list a few names of famous scientists who did believe in God: Einstein, Marconi, Newton, Heisenberg, Kohn, Pascal, Copernicus…
There are well educated and very smart scientists today who also believe that science and God can complete each other in a beautiful way. I think that the biggest problem with scientists like Richard Dawkins is that the nonexistence of God is not a final conclusion for them, it is a starting point. If you say that you know beyond any doubt that there is no God, you are in fact saying that you’ve studied both sides of the spectrum and gathered enough verifiable information about chemistry, biology, physics, geology, ways of gathering and verifying historical data, etc. etc. to say: “I know for A FACT that there is no God.” I think that every progressive scientist would be careful to make such a statement. Only scientists for whom nonexistence of God is the STARTING POINT have no problem making such a claim. The question you would have to ask yourself is this:

Do I believe that science proves beyond any doubt that there is no God because I have verifiable evidence or do I believe in it because believing otherwise is appalling to me? The key, I believe, is to not lock yourself into the “science is my religion” mode, but remain open-minded and remember that scientific discoveries will continue to bring new evidence or modify the existing evidence. I personally find that people who claim that there is no God based on what the science knows today are just as religious as people who claim that the Pope is infallible, that the Mass wafer becomes the real flesh, that Poland was handed over to Mary and is now under her control because some old man whispered a prayer on his deathbed, and that if they blow themselves up for the sake of jihad, they will be transferred onto a bed full of virgins. Religion can be very dangerous. People who claim they are right and everyone is wrong, can be dangerous. I encourage you to remain open-minded.

If you have found the truth and do not want to explore any more, I applaud you. I, however, will be closely watching what happens with the DNA research, as I find it really fascinating that each of us is equipped with this extraordinarily unique genetic code. Nature itself does not usually provide information. Nature itself more typically creates patterns. I think that in the years to come, the scientists of both persuasions will present us with even more fascinating research. If you have made up your mind – then it might be boring for you. If you’re an open-minded explorer – it will be fascinating.

Finally, to try and answer your question: “I don't understand why people find it so hard to at least consider the possibility of there being no God”…

I think that both people who believe in God and people who don’t – have very personal reasons for their beliefs. It’s difficult to say that there is no God to a drug addict who claims that his or her belief in God helped them get clean and improve their quality of life. To many people it’s a deeply personal conviction. Others have deeply personal convictions that God does not exist, especially if they were forced to believe, forced to memorize, christened against their will, etc. However, approaching science with the mind frame that God certainly has no right existing is not what true scientists do. Science must remain open to every option otherwise it becomes pseudo-science.

I hope it all makes sense. I respect you and your beliefs.

Temat: WOW!

Great post. I only have one comment, though. The scientists you mentioned had no option than to say they believed in God - but how do we know they did? ;)

Temat: WOW!

Tatiana - of course they did. Many of their contemporaries said there was no God. We all have that option and we use it to the best of our knowledge or faith.