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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
[...] I see a pattern here. Everything I said that shows the ridiculousness of a religion has either been called "propaganda" or not mentioned at all. None of you said anything to refute the points raised regarding abuse that is allowed by a widespread religion and in some places even backed-up by "law"...
I think we paid more attention to them than it is needed.

Just to make you understand, I told you clearly, that it's not a matter of religion, but REGIME.

But still, you seem like you haven't understood it, I'm afraid.

Dear Michał,

I'm Turkish.
Turkey is a country with more than 90% of its population composed of Muslims.

It's written "Muslim" on my Turkish ID. Do you have something like that on your ID?

No.

But you have the cross in your courts, AND in your parliament in Poland. Do we have any religious symbols in our/Turkish courts and parliament?

No.

And I'm telling you, that there aren't ANY laws in Turkey, which forces women to wear even a hair clip. Nada. Women are as equal to men as it can be. Turkey is one of the first countries in Europe that gave women the right to be elected to the parliament.

Please tell me that you understood until this part. Maybe I might be willing to continue AFTER learning that you understood this tiny bit of information.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 07.10.09 o godzinie 10:22
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I do understand that bit. Turkey has a government (or had until recently) that pushes for secularism. That is the reason why you are not forced to do anything - that is why you belong to the west - that is why you will be part of the EU.
You are right about regimes, but what you miss is the fact of radicals within any religion that will do atrocities in the name of religion. What I call upon islam is to review and release a "new testament" and remove the verses that call to killing kuffar if they don't convert and many, many other verses that are used by the radicals. If these weren't there, the atrocities that happen, could not be in the name of your god or prophet.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

The religions, by themselves, don't become more radical or liberal, Michał.

It is politics that drives people mad.

The reason of being an extremist, is not the religion.

Religions are TOOLS.

Just like racism, it's a tool to be used by these mofos.

Leave the religions alone. Concentrate on the REASONS.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

None of us is getting nowhere. I think the thread question was answered.

Thanks for a nice conversation.

...
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

ilter K.:

Turkey is one of the first countries in Europe that gave women the right to be elected to the parliament.
Good one in Europe. :D
I don't think Europe thinks like that.

PS: Just teasing. :P
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Andrzej S.

Andrzej S. Krok za krokiem, do
przodu.

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

those arrogant Asians! :D
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Just a couple of final thoughts:
Michał K.:
... However, wherever you go, islam is always the same...

Michal, please educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

That's like saying that all Christianity is the same, whether it be Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, Pentecostal, Mormon .....

Christians in Poland, England, Germany, Russia, the United States, South America, Africa and so on, are pretty different.

As are Muslims in Albania, Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Bangladesh, Indonesia and so on.

Each of these countries has its own distinct customs, traditions and beliefs, even though all are Islamic.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

And to return to Bernd's original question:

'Why does one become prone to extremist views?'

The answer is quite simple.

Because some people accept primitive propaganda as fact.

The videos Michal posted on this thread use the same tactics to convince Westerners they are being threatened by Muslims, as the Nazis used on the German population to convince them that they were being threatened by an imaginary world-wide Jewish conspiracy.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 07.10.09 o godzinie 12:50
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Funny thing is, I spoke to a Neo-Nazi (or whatever he'd call himself) recently.
He wanted to convince me, that Hitler convinced the German public by appealing to their intellect. Then came a set of doubtful or narrowed down facts to prove his point. Like Germany is the most dense populated state in Europe and thus needs breeding-ground in the East. That the strong sets the rules. That Germany's army was outnumbered and outgunned by the Polish, but still won swiftly and quickly. Etc.pp.
I had my share of laughter that evening :P
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Bernd Schreckenberg:
Like Germany is the most
dense populated state in Europe and thus needs breeding-ground in the East.
I've noticed that people love using this population density thing to justify extremist views. I was talking to someone who was totally certain that Britain was the most densely populated country and therefore that gave us the right to introduce all sorts of draconian laws etc etc.
In fact Belgium is number one. UK is third and Germany fourth. (if you exclude tiny countries).
So if I ever run into a Belgian fascist I'll have to concede one point.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I believe the U.K. is fast becoming the most densely populated nation.

And if the U.K. ever splits up, England will be the most densely populated of the 'home' nations.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 07.10.09 o godzinie 12:50
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
Just a couple of final thoughts:
Michał K.:
... However, wherever you go, islam is always the same...

Michal, please educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

That's like saying that all Christianity is the same, whether it be Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, Pentecostal, Mormon .....

Christians in Poland, England, Germany, Russia, the United States, South America, Africa and so on, are pretty different.

As are Muslims in Albania, Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Bangladesh, Indonesia and so on.

Each of these countries has its own distinct customs, traditions and beliefs, even though all are Islamic.

The books are the same.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Not completely.

There is the 'Book of Mormon' and different versions of the Bible.

In Islam there are different 'hadiths' (sayings of the prophet), which are accorded different values by different branches of Islam.

But far more importantly, while the book may be similar or the same for different branches of the same religion, the interpretation may be vastly different.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 07.10.09 o godzinie 15:01
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
Not completely.

There is the 'Book of Mormon' and different versions of the Bible.

In Islam there are different 'haddiths' (sayings of the prophet), which are accorded different values by different branches of Islam.

But far more importantly, while the book may be similar or the same for different branches of the same religion, the interpretation may be vastly different.
Why do these books have to be interpreted? Why do they have to exist if we already have law? Why such a book can't say "DO NOT KILL - ever - under any circumstances" and yet people "interpret" and kill in the name of a god to justify their craziness.

These books have too many holes and are clearly being abused by wacko's who want to murder or gain control over others.
Why there has to be a system of priests if god is everywhere? Why has there be a telephone booth that you go into to make a call to god? Why religion isn't an internal only system, but a tribal one?
Religion will always find a way to wage war or control people. It will always be a caste system of leaders and followers - with the leaders having power, control over people and in most religions - money.

It doesn't matter that the books are interpreted into different versions, because cherry-picking is hypocritical. You either take a set of rules and abide by all of them or you don't.
You don't "not steal" and "not rape" and then decide to kill. Radicals in every religion did just that - chose to murder because there are verses that tell them to. They didn't care that there are many more verses that say NOT to kill.

No religion can be above a country law. I think most westerners will agree with that. And if they don't, they are asking for trouble as any wacko can start a cult these days and take vulnerable people and "help" them into mindless robots that will murder anyone who the leader points a finger at.
We normally call it "organized crime" or "gang violence" unless it's under a cover of religion - then we have to be politically correct and carefull.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I believe both Ilter and myself would accept that we are (to some extent) threatened by zealots who believe in extreme interpretations of Islam.

We are not, however, threatened by 'non-crazy' Muslims, or people who merely originate from predominently Muslim countries.

The video you posted suggests that we are.
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Dave A.:

So if I ever run into a Belgian fascist I'll have to concede one point.

And there are quite a lot. Belgium and The Netherlands share the region of Flanders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders

At least in the nineties there was the biggest Nazi-bazar in Europe organized every year. And since this region is one of those 'patriotic' ones in Europe, you certainly find a lot of Skins and frozen brains there.
Maybe the guy-guy can shed more light on that? ;)
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Actually I meant Holland! :-)
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
warren whitmore:
But far more importantly, while the book may be similar or the same for different branches of the same religion, the interpretation may be vastly different.
Why do these books have to be interpreted?
I know the intention of your question (because of the following sentence of yours), but I think there's one more thing that you don't know of:

The language of Kur'an is extinct. There's noone on Earth, speaking that language. Even Arabs have to interpret it, let alone the other nations.
Why do they have to exist if we already have law?
Shall we teach you everything from the beginning?

First, the Earth and the other planets were seperated from the Sun...
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Andrzej S.:
those arrogant Asians! :D
lols.
I AM in Europe, dammit!!!
:))
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

ilter K.:
Andrzej S.:
those arrogant Asians! :D
lols.
I AM in Europe, dammit!!!
:))

You are now :D

PS: In love you FB pics. Very different, nice facets :))Bernd Schreckenberg edytował(a) ten post dnia 07.10.09 o godzinie 19:28
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