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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Just one or two things about the Muslim monsters mashing their kids into humus:

- the killing of babies is a sad sport amongst Germany's youngest white trash families
- not so long ago Germans would punish their kids severely for misbehaving, stealing, breaking the family honor
- Fritzl was, at least to my knowledge, not Muslim
- the German soldiers of WWII had on their belt buckle: Gott mit uns (God with us)

- what Christians can do or kids of Christians, one can see best in the US of A (Waco, Austin, Charles Manson, and so many more)

But playing one deed against another, is a sick card game and leads nowhere.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
Islam is no better or worse than Christianity.

The problem is not with the religion itself, but rather how some of its adherents choose to interpret it.

Your fear of Muslims is your fear of, what is for you, the unknown and unfamiliar. Like many Poles in London, you come from an all-white homogenous society, and foolishly imagine some of the exotically dressed, black and brown skinned residents you see around you in a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic city will murder you in your bed. They won't, or at least the vast majority of them probably won't.

Don't worry.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 01:31
Oh no no noo. I am not affraid of the people in London. If I were, I would know a bunch of them. I don't despise of muslims. I just think their religion is being used as a basis to destroy lives. I have absolutely no problem with a person's skin color. Do not mistake me for a racist. I am simply an anti-theist. To me religion is a left-over from times when there was no government and religion was used to control people. These religions would stop existing very quickly if it wasn't allowed to be imprinted into a child from a very young age, but chosen as an adult. None of these religions allow such a heresy (hereticos - from greek - one that has a choice).

So please don't mistake me for a racist. I just see religion from a different perspective which allowed me to take it apart and see for what it really is - a desert dogma.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Bernd Schreckenberg:
Just one or two things about the Muslim monsters mashing their kids into humus:

- the killing of babies is a sad sport amongst Germany's youngest white trash families
- not so long ago Germans would punish their kids severely for misbehaving, stealing, breaking the family honor
- Fritzl was, at least to my knowledge, not Muslim
- the German soldiers of WWII had on their belt buckle: Gott mit uns (God with us)

- what Christians can do or kids of Christians, one can see best in the US of A (Waco, Austin, Charles Manson, and so many more)

But playing one deed against another, is a sick card game and leads nowhere.
Waco was a self-contained protestant group. Manson was a rasist murderer, but it wasn't religiously motivated - like the taliban and many other jihadists are.
Catholic religion split into many branches. That has made it impossible for one to control the world much longer and is currently in decline.

Let me repeat myself. Show me a Christian country that allows the crimes that islam allows, to be part of LAW. pointing out bunch of crazies doesn't level with millions of people following a misogynistic, hatefull and close-minded life-style.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

So...

Why does one become prone to extremist views?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

My answer to that question is:
1- ignorance
2- and a reason (or reasons) to hate

These 2 things are interconnected.

Because you are an ignorant, you can't judge whether those reasons justify an outrage or not.

You believe in propagandas = You are an ignorant
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

ilter K.:
My answer to that question is:
1- ignorance
2- and a reason (or reasons) to hate

These 2 things are interconnected.

Because you are an ignorant, you can't judge whether those reasons justify an outrage or not.

You believe in propagandas = You are an ignorant

I take this is pointed at me.

I have made my case and I rest as none of the points raised regarding what's happening at the core of islam (saudi arabia and the like) are untrue. We all know, whatever truth I give about any religion, will fall on deaf ears - reason being indoctrination from a young age.

I agree that reason to hate is the basis for extremism. I agree that not listening to what the other side has to say and taking it into account is indeed ignorance.

What you fail to notice - I personally don't have anything against the western muslims or other people who practise their religion. I do mind when any religion tries to step on my freedom or freedom of people close to me. Notice the differentiation between the people and religion in the sentence above. I don't mind the people, I mind whe religion makes them do stupid things that affect me.

Ignorant jihadists don't understand that our way of life is better and so they cannot judge whether their outrage is good or not.

I see we agree.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I think all parties answered the question.

Unless anyone has something to add, let's close and disperse.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
Let me repeat myself. Show me a Christian country that allows the crimes that islam allows, to be part of LAW. pointing out bunch of crazies doesn't level with millions of people following a misogynistic, hatefull and close-minded life-style.


Not all Muslims are 'crazies', and not everyone who comes from a Muslim country is necessarily religious.

Just because you come from Poland, it doesn't mean you have to be a great admirer of Ojciec Rydzak, and that your hobbies are jew-baiting and queer-bashing. You can come from a Catholic country, and have no religious beliefs at all, or if you do have religious beliefs, they won't necessarily be an ignorant and intolerant interpretation of Catholicism.

In much the same way, people who originate from Muslim countries are not all violent, mysogynistic, religious fanatics. And not all Muslim countries are the same. Some are Islamic, others secular.

Basically, you simply focus on the excesses of extremists from weird and unpleasant branches of Islam, and inform us that people who come from predominantly Muslim countries are like this.

Some of them are, but many aren't.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 11:03
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I very much agree with you Warren. Not all islamic people are devout followers, but tell me how come there are so many burka-wearing women on the streets of UK and why is there law prohibiting women from showing their face in public in countries such as saudi arabia and iran?

I feel you are being too politically correct saying things like "yeah, but it's not all of them". That doesn't justify 32 million women being mistreated in Iran and 12 million of women in saudi arabia that can't show their hair because they would be stoned to death.

Of course not all people originating from these countries are violent, but the peer pressure exists outside their home countries and makes women over the age of 13 wear a hijab. A few years later that child can rebel against it or not, and that is their luck. Because they wouldn't have that option back home - why? their messed up religion.

Please finally notice that it's not the people I am against, but the religion itself.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

How many women in the U.K. wear burkas?

Probably less than 1%.

Btw, there is no pressure for women in Iran to be veiled. It isn't the custom there.

It is not a requirement of Islam for women to cover their faces. This is simply an Arabian tribal custom which pre-dates Islam. The Qur'an merely exhorts women to dress modestly. I'll find you the quotation on this.

Have you ever been to a predominently Muslim country?
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
how come there are so many
burka-wearing women on the streets of UK?
There aren't.
Of course not all people originating from these countries are violent,
Not all? How gracious of you. A minute percentage. For most of my life the main threat to my security has been catholic terrorists, not muslims.
Please finally notice that it's not the people I am against, but the religion itself.
I'm not convinced.
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

This is what the Qur'an states on female atire:

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; [...] (Qur'an 24:31)"

According to this text, the only body parts which must specifically be covered in public are 'the bosoms' and 'private parts'.

This is hardly a fanatical or extreme religious commandment.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Just to clear (another) thing...
Michał K.:
ilter K.:
My answer to that question is:
1- ignorance
2- and a reason (or reasons) to hate
...
You believe in propagandas = You are an ignorant
I take this is pointed at me.
Maybe indirectly, but no, you weren't on my mind when I was writing that message.

That message doesn't mean you are an ignorant.

But I don't like to repeat myself, unless it is necessary.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 13:10
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
Btw, there is no pressure for women in Iran to be veiled. It isn't the custom there.
O Rly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu2ZjuvURy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrrBxs6k18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlQHz0acSrs

No wonder they call westerners "dogs" as we easily reveal more than an ankle.
warren whitmore:
Have you ever been to a predominently Muslim country?
I have not, but as a male I can come and go as I please. I would be careful with my wife though. Wouldn't want to be thrown in jail for laying on a beach like that british couple a few months ago.

Dave A.:
Michał K.:
how come there are so many
burka-wearing women on the streets of UK?
There aren't.
Try east London. Try Whitechapel area, Barking and a few other places where there's still strong peer pressure to wear a full burkha. Try bussed headng for east london.
Dave A.:
Michał K.:
Of course not all people originating from these countries are violent,
Not all? How gracious of you. A minute percentage. For most of my life the main threat to my security has been catholic terrorists, not muslims.

I'm not saying muslims are terrorists for crying out loud. Within most religions there are forms of oppression usually against women. Doesn't matter how old a custom is, making a person wear a burkha or cut off their genitalia (circumcision) is against human rights.
Dave A.:
Michał K.:
Please finally notice that it's not the people I am against, but the religion itself.
I'm not convinced.
Where in what I wrote did I say anything about muslims being bad? Islam sucks - period. To top it off, Christianity sucks too. Any religion that makes people into sheep that are run by priests, mullah's and other power-hungry bastards is evil and will be used to take advantage of people.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 13:30
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
This is what the Qur'an states on female atire:

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; [...] (Qur'an 24:31)"

According to this text, the only body parts which must specifically be covered in public are 'the bosoms' and 'private parts'.

This is hardly a fanatical or extreme religious commandment.

So if this commandment is right and yet women are somehow wearing a full burkha, are you saying that they chose to wear it or someone (bad) made them wear it?
The question you need to ask is what happens to women who break that "hardly fanatical" commandment.

Don't you see that any religion that forbids you to do anything is taking your freedom? How can a religious set of rules be above a national law?

If you want to believe something then you're free to do so. Why does it have to have middle men in power and magic telephone booths called churches/mosks/shrines that connect you to a deity that supposedly is everywhere? Why can't you just believe and shut up about it? Why a gospel has to be preached? Why every religion is better and more true that the other?Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 13:36
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
warren whitmore:
Btw, there is no pressure for women in Iran to be veiled. It isn't the custom there.
O Rly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu2ZjuvURy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrrBxs6k18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlQHz0acSrs


You've kind of proved my point for me.

None of the women in any of the videos are veiled.

Did you not notice this?
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
how come there are so many
burka-wearing women on the streets of UK?
There aren't.
Try east London. Try Whitechapel area, Barking and a few other places where there's still strong peer pressure to wear a full burkha. Try bussed headng for east london.


I was staying with a Muslim friend in East London a couple of months ago.

I noticed hardly any women wearing burqas, even in Ilford which is in the heart of the Pakistani community.

I don't really see how you could notice women wearing burqas, as you clearly don't actually know what a 'burqa' is.

This is a burqa:


Obrazek
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

That's the full burkha, there's also a ninja burkha and a veil/head scarf called hijab. Any of these which are forced onto women is degrading. It doesn't matter how it's called or how accurate I was. Women are being beaten on police stations for revealing too much hair or showing an ankle. If you don't think that's fucked up, then I think you should speak about that with your wife/girlfriend, that's if you have one with such an approach.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

One little interference here.

What we wear isn't that important - it is how and what we think in our clothing.

If you, Michał, are able to tell a terrorist by looking at one's dressing style, congradulations to you.

On the other hand, by looking at your photo and the way you dress, I really don't understand your dedication to bollocks.

One wonders, how an educated fella from Poland, living in London, with a free mind, continues to support and believe in such a stupid propaganda with false facts...
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

ilter K.:
One little interference here.

What we wear isn't that important - it is how and what we think in our clothing.

If you, Michał, are able to tell a terrorist by looking at one's dressing style, congradulations to you.

On the other hand, by looking at your photo and the way you dress, I really don't understand your dedication to bollocks.

One wonders, how an educated fella from Poland, living in London, with a free mind, continues to support and believe in such a stupid propaganda with false facts...
Ilter, at no point I had said that people wearing burkhas are terrorists. I do not see people wearing certain clothes as terrorists. I have never implied that, so I cannot see where you got that statement from.

So in your opinion what's happening in iran and saudi arabia is just propaganda, even though many women, human rights organisations and women rights organisations have reported to the western world of the problems that women have been having for hundreds of years. Finally, there is a substantial rights movement in these countries - for a reason.

So thank you for calling me educated and free-minded, but no thanks, as facts cannot be dismissed so easily, just by calling them propaganda.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 14:48
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