Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

>What about 'Wachturm'? What about the Radio Maryja? Some of the >callers there seem not too friendly biased towards Gays and Arabs >and Jews? What about the extremist pro-life Christians in the USA >who block med-clinics?
Wachturm - never heard of it - what is it ? :)

Radio maryja - listened to by old grannies and people so brainwashed that I can't believe my own ears. Homophobic, crazy f*cks. But there is widespread condemnation for listening/buying into that crap. No young person takes it seriously unless brainwashed by the parents.
What about the jehowah witnesses and all those sects divided and subdivided into small belief groups.

That's the great thing about it. They are all divided and no one group can take over a country using the democratic process.

>I know a couple of people who wouldn't...
Why wouldn't they? Tell me, maybe this will help me convince my wife without beating her into submission.

>Or any other...
In god we trust, gott mit uns, god is on our side, allahu akbar...

So many wars fought in the name of a non-existant deity...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:

>I know a couple of people who wouldn't...
Why wouldn't they? Tell me, maybe this will help me convince my wife without beating her into submission.

You had your Communistic regime, there was one in Eastern Germany, there were and are and will be other oppressive regimes. Full of not rebelling people.
So, I guess, I know a lot more non-rebellious folks than I know of.

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

You mean ultra-conformists ?

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

There are zillions of reasons:

- conformism
- the fear of opposing
- peer-pressure
- fear for the loss of social status
- fear for family and kids and one's own life
- laziness
- disinterest

Compare to Niemoeller:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

There have been so many novels about these topics (Lord of the flies, 1984, Brave new world).

An American study amongst the German POWs after WWII found out, that there are 15% hardcore Nazis, 15% Anti-Nazis who don't speak up, and an intimidated rest of 70%.

It is in the human nature to follow the strongest leader. There can't be six billion leaders. So the majority of people will not rebel against.
If people were so rebellious as you may want them to be, there would be more civil disobey, more civil courage (like helping people in need) aso.

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
I am not affraid that "Muslims living nearby will butcher" me, but I am reluctant to allow a coup and sharia into a western country.

"Sharia" is not good for anyone.

You're talking like this, maybe because you are just another victim to propaganda. Propaganda created by the 'warrior's of other religion.
You don't fight with religion with another religion. Or you fight, and it'd be called: `Crusade`.
Then your way is going to be the harsh and violent way.
You'll just end up being like the ones you criticized and belittled.

That can be easily achieved once enough muslims enter the government and take advantage of our democratic governing process and finally doing what was done in Iran in 1979.

You, sir, have no idea what was Iran about before Reza Shah Pahlavi.
You need to be too naive to think that Iran had a democracy before.
Maybe because you don't have any clue about the middle eastern history.

Ask the women of Tehran if they are happy to wear burkhas after living without them before the revolution. See what's being going on on the streets of Iran for the past few months.

Believe me, I don't have to ask this to anyone, as I'm Turkish.

That's what I don't want to happen and that's why I will defend the country I live in from ever happening.

And what would be the method to defend your country?

Why there was widespread consent in Europe for moving/killing jews?
Jealousy.

Oh!
hehe

I'm sorry Michał, but you need to read more about history.
You have no clue on what you are talking about.

The things you write are all 2nd hand knowledge, probably got from another type of religious propaganda.

I see no point on further commenting what you write in here, I'm afraid.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 15:18

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

>You're talking like this, maybe because you are just another >victim to propaganda. Propaganda created by the 'warrior's of >other religion.
>You don't fight with religion with another religion. Or you >fight, and it'd be called: `Crusade`.

A crusade is one religion invading another. Crusade = Jihad.
As an atheist person I would not be using religion. I will not have my freedom taken away by some power-hungry mullah's and be a sheep in a herd nor will I give away the freedoms that my wife and children have - to dress as they choose and express their sexuality if they need to.
>Then your way is going to be the harsh and violent way.
>You'll just end up being like the ones you criticized and >belittled.

Europe is talking a lot. The question is will talking be enough. I certainly hope it will as I wouldn't not like to take part in any wars.

What do you think would happen if I went to any wonderful islamic country and preach about women rights, gay rights, democracy, atheism? I would be killed. A lot of people are lucky that we don't have too many nut jobs in europe that go around destroying mosks and ripping burkhas off.

>You, sir, have no idea what was Iran about before Reza Shah >Pahlavi. You need to be too naive to think that Iran had a >democracy before. Maybe because you don't have any clue about the >middle eastern history.

I wasn't there and all I can know is second hand info.
What's your take on this then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQy0ZGjAqM8

>Believe me, I don't have to ask this to anyone, as I'm Turkish.
So you agree that women are not happy about it?

>And what would be the method to defend your country?
If militants try to take over a country and stage a coup?
That's a no-brainer.

>Why there was widespread consent in Europe for moving/killing >jews?
>Jealousy.
>Oh!
>hehe

You took that out of context. I wrote a whole list of reasons that the Germans had against the jews. They were made to believe that the jews were responsible for all the problems and at the time jews were quite rich compared to non-jews.

>I'm sorry Michał, but you need to read more about history.
>You have no clue on what you are talking about.
>The things you write are all 2nd hand knowledge, probably got >from another type of religious propaganda.

I feel I know enough not to allow an islamic republic to form in Europe. That is the base line. Besides, reading is also second hand knowledge, so your advice is meaningless.

As for extremism forming in people - it starts with religion. You touch that topic in someone and start questioning their belief and "facts" from their book (be it the bible, koran, torah) and a blade will open in their pocket. The reason we have extremism is because people are indoctrinated from a very young age and telling them to stop believing and following their religion is like telling them not to breath. Such a request goes into the cortex of the brain and flashes a warning light. That's why people react so strongly even though religion is in itself a fairy tale added onto a set of outdated rules and laws in order to control people and gain power. It's an old form of government.

Faith on the other hand is an internal belief that one might feel the need to have and is free to do so. But should shut up about it and not push onto others - certainly not their children who are too young to choose.

To answer the thread question - when a fox is cornered - it attacks. The question is, is it really cornered or was it made to believe it is?

Bernd, sorry to derail your thread, but I think that there wouldn't be extremism without a religious level of belief in an ideology - hence my rant about islam in Europe - used as a bait to trigger a reaction.
I didn't mean to make anyone angry, but if I did, it shows how strong of an impact can religion have on a persons cognitive response. People wouldn't give a shit if I told someone that I think they are ugly or dress like a tramp, but once religion is questioned, a tone is played on the extremist string that exists in all believers.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 16:36

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:

A crusade is one religion invading another. Crusade = Jihad.
As an atheist person I would not be using religion.

Anti-religion works the same way. Same as non-smokers can be a vicious bunch.

I will not have my freedom taken away by some power-hungry mullah's and be a sheep in a herd nor will I give away the freedoms that my wife and children have - to dress as they choose and express their sexuality if they need to.

What nobody asks of you, and will certainly not in your life time.

Europe is talking a lot. The question is will talking be enough. I certainly hope it will as I wouldn't not like to take part in any wars.

If that's coming what you are portraying it'll be your war to fight.

I wrote a whole list of reasons that the Germans had against the jews. They were made to believe that the jews were responsible for all the problems and at the time jews were quite rich compared to non-jews.

Like the Jews living on the river bank of the Wisla? Or the ones in Prague, where Kafka found his Golem? Nah, Hitler took the ranting against Jews out of his public speeches for a long time, since it did not strike the public the way he hoped for at the beginning. Later, in 1940 or so it came back in it's full force.
The German's support for Hitler had little to do with the Jews. If you look at the percentages of the NSDAP in the elections, you see that it was not a constant and ever growing support. So much for the facts.

Besides, reading is also second hand knowledge, so your advice is meaningless.

Reading a second hand knowledge? Libraries on the same level with kiermasz odziezy? Hm, interesting. I wonder why the bible and Mein Kampf are so popular still and give the most interesting ideas to people...

As for extremism forming in people - it starts with religion. You touch that topic in someone and start questioning their belief and "facts" from their book (be it the bible, koran, torah) and a blade will open in their pocket.

Haven't heard of Jews killing each other while discussing the Tora. If so, they had killed each other already. Someone who gets aggravated over religion is not a steadfast believer.

To answer the thread question - when a fox is cornered - it attacks. The question is, is it really cornered or was it made to believe it is?

Where does the fox come from?

Bernd, sorry to derail your thread, but I think that there wouldn't be extremism without a religious level of belief in an ideology - hence my rant about islam in Europe - used as a bait to trigger a reaction.

So, Kebab-shops are the new SS? Extra-spicy the new Zyklon B? Koran the new Mein Kampf? Every covered up women a spy for the new Gestapo? Boy, these towel-heads must be sneaky bastards...

People wouldn't give a shit if I told someone that I think they are ugly or dress like a tramp, but once religion is questioned, a tone is played on the extremist string that exists in all believers.

You are right. Of course are all Arabs hideous creatures, except Aladdin o course, oh and Soraya. ;)

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Anyway, Michal, I hope this helps a little.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8189231.stm

The video you posted is full of half-truths and outright lies, and merely plays on the fears of the credulous.

Personally I don't worry about Muslims taking over the West and eating my children, (or whatever dastardly deeds they have in mind), 'cos I know it simply ain't gonna happen.

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

And here is another more detailed rebuttal:

http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/muslim-demogr...

Just one short exerpt.

The video claims that French muslims have 8.1 children per woman.

Here are the actual figures for the countries of origin of most French muslims:

Morocco 2.57
Algeria 1.82
Tunisia 1.73
Turkey 1.87

The video is, to use colloquial English, bollocks of the highest order.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 22:47

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Guys! Take it easy. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my last post but this is an exercise. I do not hate muslims! Let me come back to that in a moment though.

>Anti-religion works the same way. Same as non-smokers can be a vicious bunch.
And as a non-smoker I stand with them, trying not to inhale smoke on the cigarette littered streets. It's my body that other people's choices poison.

>Like the Jews living on the river bank of the Wisla? Or the ones in >Prague, where Kafka found his Golem? Nah, Hitler took the ranting >against Jews out of his public speeches for a long time, since it >did not strike the public the way he hoped for at the beginning. >Later, in 1940 or so it came back in it's full force.

So we agree that currently the same tactic is being used towards muslims? To achieve a common enemy in the eyes of the west?
As for Wislan jews - propaganda isn't about the truth. It's about sigling out a group and making people hate them.

>Reading a second hand knowledge? Libraries on the same level with >kiermasz odziezy? Hm, interesting. I wonder why the bible and >Mein Kampf are so popular still and give the most interesting >ideas to people...

Ilter wrote that "You have no clue on what you are talking about.
The things you write are all 2nd hand knowledge[...]" 1st hand knowledge is when I am there at the place and time when something was happening. So everything we learn from books is second hand knowledge. Please don't just try to find things to attack me m'kay?

>Haven't heard of Jews killing each other while discussing the >Tora. If so, they had killed each other already. Someone who gets >aggravated over religion is not a steadfast believer.

You misunderstood me Bernd. When one person questions another persons' religion, the second person gets aggravated. Within a religion so such as christianity, islam or judaism it is forbidden to question anything under the threat of sin and wrath of god. No such debates take place as the holy book is taken as fact. Debates happen only to make the sh*t stick to the times they are in.

>Where does the fox come from?

It doesn't matter. Any cornered fox will attack. My answer to the thread question - "Why does one become prone to extremist views" is when one is pushed into a corner or is made to believe it's in a corner.

>Bernd, sorry to derail your thread, but I think that there >wouldn't be extremism without a religious level of belief in an >ideology - hence my rant about islam in Europe - used as a bait >to trigger a reaction.
---
>So, Kebab-shops are the new SS? Extra-spicy the new Zyklon B? >Koran the new Mein Kampf? Every covered up women a spy for the >new Gestapo? Boy, these towel-heads must be sneaky bastards...

Now let me explain. I have shown you a movie that exaggerates certain facts and is propaganda. A person believing such propaganda can become an extremist. I asked if what is portrayed in that video has made anyone feel "extreme". At no point I stated that I believe this is going to happen however I did state, that I oppose religion altogether and would not give up my rights, should the current liberal state be overthrown. This is where I would become "extreme".
Unfortunately I let myself down a path of criticizing a religion and comparing it to another - christianity being a bit better due to being liberal and easy to quit, and islam on the other side as being at a point where there are still hardline believers doing like they did 15 centuries ago (burkhas, marying children, honor killings, murdering kuffar). I understand how that may have derailed my bait and switch tactic of making people realize how religion triggers extremism inside a person's mind. I was hoping for more islamic people to show up and show us how much of a religion of peace it is with some nice life threats just like Geert Wilders got and these people gave:







So take it easy on me.

Warren, the numbers you gave are great and I am well aware that the fertility rate in UK is almost 2.

As for "I don't worry about Muslims taking over the West and eating my children" what you should be worried about is how together with influx of immigrants along comes the culture.

The honor killings
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6743357.stm (12 last year btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb48sdvSB8I

Beating into submission
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl8g8S6F3do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM

Being indoctrinated into killing people (outright abuse in the below video - you've been warned)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHHZ-BOMuI

Paedophilia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWwNZmqN2Zc (and going as low as <if a man needs to go on a trip but doesnt have any wives he needs to wed his daughters, so they will be taken care of>. Hire a babysitter for f*ck sake.

Being punished for being alone with an "unrelated man" after being gang-raped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHSrMDZrIug

and many more problems that nut-cases (ie crazy mullah's and devout followers) see as allowed in the western world due to sharia being above our law.

To conclude, let's read this intelligent statement

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Statement-on-M...Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 23:36

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michal, this is a hate site:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

i know it is, but i am pointing to the one text that makes perfect sense, is not hate speech and i do not request anyone to read anything else, nor i plan to.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 00:19

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
i know it is, but i am pointing to the one text that makes perfect sense, is not hate speech and i do not request anyone to read anything else, nor i plan to.

The text makes perfect sense, but is used to defend a site promoting hate speech.

It's a common tactic, to say something reasonable, and then spew hate.

The classic, 'I'm not a racist but .....'

Like when you stated you have many good friends who are Muslims, but .....warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 01:30

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Regarding your videos on the 'wickedness' of Muslims, are not Christians, historically, just as bad if not worse?

Have a look here:

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/48859/christian-cri...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

warren whitmore:
Regarding your videos on the 'wickedness' of Muslims, are not Christians, historically, just as bad if not worse?

Have a look here:

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/48859/christian-cri...

Historically, yes. Currently, no.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 00:51

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Here's another one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvJnShi08Mc

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Is this one modern?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdM-_xJYGKw

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qfyouane4U

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

I don't think I made myself clear. I am an atheist. Islam is worse than other liberal faiths because it's not been reviewed and updated. Forcing burkha's onto women who have no right to vote/travel alone/drive a car etc is not the right way to go regardless of what your take on religion is as a whole. Human rights, are human rights.

There are bad apples in all religion, because religion is practiced by people not by gods. Show me a christian country that has a law allowing the killing of black people and one that allows paedophilia and I will agree with you.
You know I can show you a few countries that do just that.

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Islam is no better or worse than Christianity.

The problem is not with the religion itself, but rather how some of its adherents choose to interpret it.

Your fear of Muslims is your fear of, what is for you, the unknown and unfamiliar. Like many Poles in London, you come from an all-white homogenous society, and foolishly imagine some of the exotically dressed, black and brown skinned residents you see around you in a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic city will murder you in your bed. They won't, or at least the vast majority of them probably won't.

Don't worry.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.10.09 o godzinie 01:31