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Temat: Whose language is it?

Does the English language 'belong' to native speakers of English?

Or is it the world's lingua franca, and no-one's exclusive property?
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Temat: Whose language is it?

I don't think any language belongs to anyone... if you are willing to learn it and use it as one of the many means of communication and description than it becomes as much your language as the natives. The depth of understanding however is something completely different.
I don't think that any given person who is trying to master a new language can fully understand the meaning behind all words, expressions etc etc without the cultural integration factor. Language is like a living thing, forever changing and evolving, if you can tame it and make it your "pet" than why can't you call it yours?
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:
Does the English language 'belong' to native speakers of English?

Or is it the world's lingua franca, and no-one's exclusive property?

You mean there should be some sort of a license fee to not native speakers for using it?
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Temat: Whose language is it?

Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
Does the English language 'belong' to native speakers of English?

Or is it the world's lingua franca, and no-one's exclusive property?

You mean there should be some sort of a license fee to not native speakers for using it?

No, not at all.

I mean, for example, should notions of correctness be derived solely from the way English is used by native speakers of English?

Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?

There are many such questions.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.05.08 o godzinie 00:00
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Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:

I mean, for example, should notions of correctness be derived solely from the way English is used by native speakers of
English?

It really depends on the situation at hand, if you are learning just to be able communicate your basic needs for purpose of travel or something work related, than I don't think it's that relevant to stick too close to the source, but if you are trying to actually learn English it correctness becomes a necessity.

Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?
>
Definitely not. What's the point? Unless you are an actor studying to play a British gentleman, New York cab driver or an Australian businessman on a business trip to Hong Kong.
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:
Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
Does the English language 'belong' to native speakers of English?

Or is it the world's lingua franca, and no-one's exclusive property?

You mean there should be some sort of a license fee to not native speakers for using it?

No, not at all.


I was joking..;)
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Whose language is it?

hehe, I knew it, Andrzej!
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:
I mean, for example, should notions of correctness be derived solely from the way English is used by native speakers of English?

I know waht you mean but it will only be an "academic question". We all know that this English we mean here differs from the one used by native speakers and there is no chance it could ever be changed.
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:
Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?

Here I think that they should, some may be better in this and some will be worse. We also need to remember that American accent is quite different from British. So which one is better?Andrzej P. edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.05.08 o godzinie 00:15
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Temat: Whose language is it?

Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
I mean, for example, should notions of correctness be derived solely from the way English is used by native speakers of English?

I know waht you mean but it will only be an "academic question". We all know that this English we mean here differs from the one used by native speakers and there is no chance it could ever be changed.

Should you attempt to change it, and to what extent?

What exactly should a native speaker teacher be paid to teach/correct?

These are interesting and important questions.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Whose language is it?

Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?

Here I think that they should, some may be better in this and some will be worse. We also need to remember that American accent is quite different from British. So which one is better?


The Aussie one, of course.
(gnite)Lidia K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.05.08 o godzinie 00:16
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:
Should you attempt to change it, and to what extent?

I don't think anybody attempts to change it on purpose. But if you look at English spoken for instance in EU among the officials and diplomats, it seems to develop on its own.
What exactly should a native speaker teacher be paid to teach/correct?

I am only expert on salaries in supply chain and like professions ;)
These are interesting and important questions.

Certainly tehy are...
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

Lidia K.:
Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?

Here I think that they should, some may be better in this and some will be worse. We also need to remember that American accent is quite different from British. So which one is better?


The Aussie one, of course.
(gnite)Lidia K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.05.08 o godzinie 00:16

Yeah! gnite ;)
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Temat: Whose language is it?

warren whitmore:

Should you attempt to change it, and to what extent?

I think until you are understood.

What exactly should a native speaker teacher be paid to teach/correct?

Communication and accurate description, while vocabulary should be left for homework.
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Temat: Whose language is it?

Andrzej P.:
warren whitmore:
Should students of English attempt to copy the accents of native speakers?

Here I think that they should, some may be better in this and some will be worse. We also need to remember that American accent is quite different from British. So which one is better?[edited]

There is no answer to this.

People (generally) learn either the British or American version.

Fortunately, from my personal, selfish point of view, it is the British version that generally gets taught in Poland.

However, if (for example) Irish, Canadian and Australian English are regarded as perfectly acceptable, how many forms of English can be regarded as as correct?

What about Indian, Nigerian and Singaporean English.

And if the above are equally acceptable variants of English, how about 'Euro' or dare I say it Polish English?
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Temat: Whose language is it?

There is no "better" accent as long as you get to communicate your thought to people; but, does "native speaker"/"proficiency" level mean you can speak with a discernible Polish accent while using all kinds of complex structures and fancy vocabulary?
It's always a problem for me when I have to employ a teacher, and I have to say I'd rather get one who doesn't sound terribly Polish than a university professor who says "zis" and "dat".
Re: British vs American, I think the latter is getting more and more popular, just because we get so many American movies; plus, most native speakers in some areas are actually American, not British.
I think there's nothing wring with sounding Polish though, as long as you get the message across.
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Keith Byrne

Keith Byrne Director, Select
Training Solutions

Temat: Whose language is it?

The whole argument boils down to the definition of "correct", really. In Hiberno-English -the dialect spoken in the land of saints and scholars, it is perfectly acceptable to say "I amn't". I would never teach someone to say this, as they would get jeered. I would also teach the word "cupboard", but accept "press". As to accent, the same rule applies as for native speakers -if people understand you well enough, you haven't got a problem. Tatiana would not have hired me fifteen years ago -and rightly so! A prerequisite of being a good English teacher is being able to speak clearly and be coherently. Since I changed my accent, I'm very clear, amn't I?Keith Byrne edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.05.08 o godzinie 08:03
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: Whose language is it?

Tatiana S.:
I think there's nothing wring with sounding Polish though, as long as you get the message across.

Usually sounds better than "sounding French", at least to me ;)
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Temat: Whose language is it?


Obrazek
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Temat: Whose language is it?

I like my teachers to at least get as close to a standard pronunciation as possible, be it British or American. No preference for me though, but I'm used to American accents rather than the British, which means I will have difficulty understanding a British person when they speak too fast.
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