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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

İlter K.:
Bernd Schreckenberg:
Krzysztof Obidziński:
His was our representative and we owe him respect.

No, you don't. It's everyone's personal decision.

Respect you have to earn...
I guess he was talking about a different kind of respect.
Think about it... I'm sure you'll figure that out :)

And, of course I think we should respect the dead and sorrow caused by their death.
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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Steve Jones:
The whole Wawel idiocy has drawn attention away from the most important questions which need answering:

1. Why was this plane chosen in the first place? It requires 3km of runway whereas Smolensk has only 2 km. Surely the choice was either to use a different plane or choose a different airport?

2. Who ordered the pilot to ignore air traffic control and land anyway? A civil pilot would have obeyed air traffic control. However, the pilot was a military one and would have obeyed orders. Someone ordered him to land. Who?

3. Does the Georgia incident have any bearing on this? Kaczynski wanted to land in a war zone but the pilot refused and diverted the plane to a safer airport. He then lost his job.

4. What are the lessons to be learned from all of this?

That the saying Polak potrafi isn't necessarily true.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 14.04.10 o godzinie 15:48
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

What I really respected in the late president were his courage and hard line. He was not a type of guy who loiters around and moans "I'll kiss you in the ass if you say that you like me". He was as he was and didn't wanted to change for people to like him and it was ok for me.
When there was that issue between Russia and Georgia, he was not meowing like a little pussy but stood strong. When a stonger one attacks and the weaker one retaliates, I always respect the weaker one even, if he must fall.
About Wawel... well, personally, I'm not very sure, but when I hear this moaning "Wawel... nooooo, nooooo, Wawel, nooooo..." Hell, I scream - Wawel, yeah!! You can try to bruise me if you are against!Paweł G. edytował(a) ten post dnia 14.04.10 o godzinie 18:40
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Agnieszka Piasecka

Agnieszka Piasecka Ukraina, jeśli
krótko.

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Paweł G.:
Hell, I scream - Wawel, yeah!! You can try to bruise me if you are against!Paweł G. edytował(a) ten post dnia 14.04.10 o godzinie 18:40

I support you fully...
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Agnieszka Piasecka

Agnieszka Piasecka Ukraina, jeśli
krótko.

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

And that is from me:
I would like to send deepest condolences in the name of the Students of the International Relations at Warsaw School of Social Science and Humanities and in my own name.

For recent days with my friend we go and for 16, 17 hours daily make movies, photos and collect people's comments on what had happened last Saturday.

And so we had noticed cynical approach of my would be fellow coworkers, journalists. After Mr President's and Mrs First Lady tragic death they had finally found nice photos and nice tapes of them in the editorial archives.

Courage, patriotism, Eastern Policy, landing at Tbilisi, all of that had been just recently laughed at and critisized in the name of "war with Kaczyzm", now the very same things are the reason to glory Mr President and to be proud of him. We are very happy when Western media write about him "the last great statesman". But just two weeks ago it was impossible for Mr President to have a nice photo in the newspaper, and it was impossible for tv camera to be tactfully blind for minor human errors ( like his shoes or whatever).

Dutch people were able to honour the First Lady with the tulip of Her name, when fellow countrymen offered her cat's moaning music. Now there are lots of tuplips. And only She... is gone.Agnieszka Piasecka edytował(a) ten post dnia 14.04.10 o godzinie 18:57
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

I might agree with you guys that he was a patriot in his own terms, but him supporting Georgia as if it was a misunderstood/mispresented country was little bit strange to me.

If you say "he was a real fighter" I agree.

But if you say "he was a real patriot", I say a real patriot who has to function as the president should give a listen to what the diplomats/envoys say whose profession is international relations.

I'm a patriot too, but God help us if I only act according to my own senses and judgements. There would be massacres! (Kidding).

The late president was a patriot, but not a great "patriot president".

On the other hand, I'd also had a feeling his pushy behaviour during EU negotiations were needed. But that's just an impression - I don't have the means to judge that process/period.

He was a little too stubborn, like a child, I've heard.
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Michał K.

Michał K. Specjalista Oracle
PL/SQL.

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Arvind Juneja:
Michał K.:
I think they haven't told her
I can hardly imagine how could the keep that news away from her...
But it really happen..
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,7773155...
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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

coming back to Wawel thing-don't agree with this,LK should be put to rest in Warsaw, although one may say he was on his duty...but it's already decided, so we can't do anything about it.any discussion makes no sense, some ppl will only get more infuriated.pity our nation once (=last Saturday) united, now divided...over this issue.clear bone of contention which will lead to, wonder, what...
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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Here's an interesting text raising an issue of how we mourn our dead politicians, how sincere we are ... What do you think about that ?

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,7773566...Krzysztof Obidziński edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.04.10 o godzinie 10:17
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
Trainer, Translator,
Proofreader

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Oh Jesus Christ! Kaczynski buried next to Pilsudzki??????

How about we bury Gordon Brown next to Elizabeth I?

Get a grip!
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Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Steve Jones:
Oh Jesus Christ! Kaczynski buried next to Pilsudzki??????

How about we bury Gordon Brown next to Elizabeth I?

Get a grip!
exactly...
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Agnieszka S.:
...but it's already decided, so we can't do anything about it.any discussion makes no sense, some ppl will only get more infuriated.pity our nation once (=last Saturday) united, now divided...
Nah, don't worry.
I don't think Poland will discuss this subject for long.
Let it be...
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Andrzej S.

Andrzej S. Krok za krokiem, do
przodu.

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Choice is made and undoable. What's done is done.
Discussions are irrelevant now.
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Keith Byrne

Keith Byrne Director, Select
Training Solutions

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Just joining this thread late, so this point may have been raised before.
Re the Wawel thing, has anybody asked Marta Kaczyńska how she feels about having to travel from the coast to Krakow when she wants to visit her mother's grave? If she doesn't mind the hundreds of foreign teenagers sitting outside moaning that they haven't been to McDonald's yet, and why do they have to go in, 'cause it's only some dumb kings and stuff'.

Then again, I suppose if the nation expected her to kneel on an airport landing strip and pray to her dead father before the nation's press and TV, she won't mind that too much, either.Keith Byrne edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.04.10 o godzinie 16:08
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Katarzyna Środa-Więckowska

Katarzyna Środa-Więckowska Operations Manager,
Kancelaria Środa

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

We have no idea what Marta Kaczyńska is going through right now and if she really didn't mind kneeling and praying in front of, well, almost the whole nation. I believe this and all the fuss over the Wawel thing it's tremendously devastating for her - imagine, your parents died and you can't mourn them quietly in private.Katarzyna Ś. edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.04.10 o godzinie 16:51
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

I've been inquiring from people I know and student's all week their personal reactions and what they hear at their work places:

- The overhelming number of people is not sad.
- They agree on the tragic part just as much as on the irony part of the whole thing.
- Everyone thinks or thinks it's quite likely that Kaczynski forced the pilot to land and thus led to the whole catastrophe
- Everyone is against Wawel.
- Everyone says that it's decided and one can't do anything against it.
- Some fear a national resurrection and Kaczynski as new president
- Most of them add "But of course you can't say that now."

- I hear talks of people on the street, just today some guy in a Kebab asked me angrily why they don't say what's on the black box

I wonder if we will ever know who's really responsible for the crash and if we do, if Kaczynski can stay in Wawel if proven he forced the pilot.
Maybe he'll end up in Powazki nonetheless.
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Sara Anna Kowalska

Sara Anna Kowalska Internal Responsible
Data Manager

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Katarzyna Ś.:
We have no idea what Marta Kaczyńska is going through right now and if she really didn't mind kneeling and praying in front of, well, almost the whole nation. I believe this and all the fuss over the Wawel thing it's tremendously devastating for her - imagine, your parents died and you can't mourn them quietly in private.Katarzyna Ś. edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.04.10 o godzinie 16:51


True!!!
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
Project ...

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

When I hear ppl repeating like mantra "He hasn't deserved for Wawel... He hasn't deserved for Wawel... He hasn't deserved for Wawel..." it makes me wonder how many names of ppl buried there they could list. Of course I mean a list of names together with a short motivation why they should or shouldn't be buried there.

If one knows the history and still disagrees, I say well, ok, it's ur own decision, I don't mind.
...but if one even cannot list the names of kings of Poland, then one is not in position to assess if others "deserve" or "not deserve" for Wawel or whatever and I say stfu :P
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
Project ...

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Steve Jones:
Oh Jesus Christ! Kaczynski buried next to Pilsudzki??????

How about we bury Gordon Brown next to Elizabeth I?

Get a grip!

Not sure about Gordon, but what would you say about Johny Rotten? All in all he was singing "God save the queen".
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Aneta W.

Aneta W. "People are better
than no people..."

Temat: The President of Poland is dead

Whoever decided that Lech and Maria Kaczynscy should be buried in Wawel, well that's on them. And I don't think that joining groups on Facebook or organizing a gathering in protest of this, is going to do any good. The decision has been made and if we like it or not, we should just accept it.

What happened in Smolensk was tragic and there's no doubt about it. What I don't understand is:
Why is so much money being spent on all the funerals?
Why are the families getting huge amounts of money? Is anybody paying thousands of zloty to the families of people who die in car accidents or of cancer? Does anybody care if a poor farmer from a small village, a father of 10, the only source of money dies? Does anybody give his family money? The family probably has problems getting any money from ZUS for the funeral because they lack some kind of 'important' documents... Is he worse because he didn't die in a plane crash?
I'm very sorry for those who died and for their families but I think many things that are done now and decisions made by the government are not thought through. But the families are not to be blamed. It's politics and that's it.Aneta F. edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.04.10 o godzinie 23:00
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