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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Today marks the 65th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising, a lot of controversy surrounds this event. Here is an article which nicely breaks down the inter workings of that event. [In Polish only unfortunately]

http://antydziad.salon24.pl/92327,tekst-zamykajacy-dys...

During the red times, tons of misinformation led to creating a myth of the "dumb" soldier who died for nothing and for no reason... the reality of things was however very different. I hope this essay sheds a bit of a light on those times.

During 63 days of fighting over 200 000 people lost their lives... least we can do is not play down their courage and bravery. History is often written by those who won... and we all know who won that war.
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

To be honest, I'm really surprised and confused with all this Warsaw Uprising frenzy: all day-long media coverages, Polish bands playing songs with Baczyński and Gajcy's lyrics, Norman Davies' books and Lao Che CDs exposed in shop windows everywhere, 150 out of your 200 friends on Nasza Klasa putting memorial pictures on their profiles...

It's been 20 years since we took back our history and are able to discuss its "forbidden" events in public, but it's only just now when the uprising and celebrating it suddenly became so popular. Is it just me, or is this really getting "trendy"?Magda B. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.08.09 o godzinie 20:15
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Michal B.

Michal B. stud.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

This is a day when I can hardly stop my tears from flowing and it has been like that ever since I can remember. The spirit of all those brave people (not only Varsovians and not only Poles)is still in the air - not only on this particular day.
I do not care about all the academic discussions on the Uprising, about all the ignorant Poles who will not stop for a minute to pay tribute to those who perished in the name of their true love of freedom, or about
politicians.
My late neighbour (she passed away two years ago) told me everything I need to know about those days. Once she said: " You know, if there is anything I am proud of in my life, it is my participation in Warsaw Uprising".
Why are people proud of taking part in the Uprising? Why am I proud of them and of being Polish? Is it because it didn't make any sense? I think every true Pole understands the importance of those sixty three days.Michal B. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.08.09 o godzinie 18:14
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Rafał D.

Rafał D. Head of Production,
Locon Sp. z o.o.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Making role playing game of what caused death to two hundred thousand people shows perfectly what today's Europe (or Western World) became.Rafał D. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.08.09 o godzinie 22:06
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Michal B.:
>I think every true Pole understands the importance of
those sixty three days.

Unfortunately not everyone

http://www.goldenline.pl/forum/polityka/1077920/s/1#20...

There are those, who from the comfort of their homes, in front of their monitors like to split these atoms and call those who have perished idiots.
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Michal B.

Michal B. stud.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
Michal B.:
>I think every true Pole understands the importance of
those sixty three days.

Unfortunately not everyone

http://www.goldenline.pl/forum/polityka/1077920/s/1#20...

There are those, who from the comfort of their homes, in front of their monitors like to split these atoms and call those who have perished idiots.

Rafał, I meant every TRUE Pole. Those who say what you cited above would have probably been perfect collaborators then or, maybe they are still despairing that the red plague failed to spread forever.
The best way would be to erase everything from our memory. "Why can't you be like the rest of Europe - why don't you stop talking about that awful war every day", some ask. Well, first of all, we are not the rest of Europe - our experience is totally different.
But it is a long story and I am sure you know it as well as I do.

Some people hate all this 'hullabaloo' about the Uprising and want to know why it is all so noisy. The answer: lest they forget.Michal B. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.08.09 o godzinie 22:17
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Michal B.:

Some people hate all this 'hullabaloo' about the Uprising and want to know why is it all so noisy. The answer: lest they forget.

I was in front of the Palac Kultury today when the sirens went off, it felt so good to be able to stand there with my daughter. Why? I really wouldn't even be able to rationalize the answer.
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Michal B.

Michal B. stud.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
Michal B.:

Some people hate all this 'hullabaloo' about the Uprising and want to know why is it all so noisy. The answer: lest they forget.

I was in front of the Palac Kultury today when the sirens went off, it felt so good to be able to stand there with my daughter. Why? I really wouldn't even be able to rationalize the answer.

Must be something to do with your heart. No doubt about that at all. I feel exactly the same.
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Michal B.:

Must be something to do with your heart. No doubt about that at all. I feel exactly the same.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that when I was younger, I was a part of the ZHR 23WDH Pomaranczarnia for few years, so Zoska and Parasol were very familiar figures to me. ;)
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: The '44 uprising...

The emotionality of Poles at a national holiday or any other occurrence of national importance is baffling to me as a German. The reason is simple: As so many others before me I have been subjected to teachers telling me, that I should be ashamed of my country and that there is little to nothing to be proud of. So when it comes to nationality one gets quite indifferent.

You, as Poles, have come a long way. History and modern political life burdens you with a lot to talk about and lessons still to learn or topics still to discuss (however you'd like to put it). Having dates and holidays which bond you, may bear fruits for future Polish generations to come as to lead this country away from the shambles of the past.
Or whatever you decide ;)
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Bernd Schreckenberg:
The emotionality of Poles at a national holiday or any other occurrence of national importance is baffling to me as a German. The reason is simple: As so many others before me I have been subjected to teachers telling me, that I should be ashamed of my country and that there is little to nothing to be proud of. So when it comes to nationality one gets quite indifferent.

You, as Poles, have come a long way. History and modern political life burdens you with a lot to talk about and lessons still to learn or topics still to discuss (however you'd like to put it). Having dates and holidays which bond you, may bear fruits for future Polish generations to come as to lead this country away from the shambles of the past.
Or whatever you decide ;)


You should never bee ashamed for something that you had nothing to do with. Teachers telling you that are just plain out stupid. Just like you shouldn't be proud to be born here or there... you should be proud of your acomplishments.
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
jaki myślisz, że
jest"

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
Bernd Schreckenberg:
Or whatever you decide ;)


You should never bee ashamed for something that you had nothing to do with. Teachers telling you that are just plain out stupid. Just like you shouldn't be proud to be born here or there... you should be proud of your acomplishments.
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
I couldn't say it better :-)
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
Project ...

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
You should never bee ashamed for something that you had nothing to do with. Teachers telling you that are just plain out stupid. Just like you shouldn't be proud to be born here or there... you should be proud of your acomplishments.
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

However I agree with 'the spirit' of this statement, i'd rather say that 'We should be proud of the great deeds of our fathers and take care not 2 repeat their wrong deeds'.
I consider this pride we should feel as a part of respect we owe ppl who strifed 4 the world in the shape we may now enjoy.
It still means that I find ppl who try 2 convince others that should be ashamed of their nation as stupid buttholes with problems which they wanna drop on others.

The same applies to the Uprising. I think that discussions like 'what would happen if..." r quite irrelevant and i simply respect the decision of ppl who decided 2 fight and i'm simply brave of their courage.

I also think that it should be stressed that, however, the Uprising was a battle between Polish and Germans it wasn't against Germans or even Nazis - it was a desperate cry against the most inhuman ideology of the world - AGAINST BLOODY COMMUNISM.
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
Bernd Schreckenberg:
The emotionality of Poles at a national holiday or any other occurrence of national importance is baffling to me as a German. The reason is simple: As so many others before me I have been subjected to teachers telling me, that I should be ashamed of my country and that there is little to nothing to be proud of. So when it comes to nationality one gets quite indifferent.

You, as Poles, have come a long way. History and modern political life burdens you with a lot to talk about and lessons still to learn or topics still to discuss (however you'd like to put it). Having dates and holidays which bond you, may bear fruits for future Polish generations to come as to lead this country away from the shambles of the past.
Or whatever you decide ;)


You should never bee ashamed for something that you had nothing to do with. Teachers telling you that are just plain out stupid. Just like you shouldn't be proud to be born here or there... you should be proud of your acomplishments.
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.


Yeah, but that's just how Bernd loves to see the world.

Poor Bernd, with everyone and everything conspiring against him.

I doubt whether his teachers actually told him he should be ashamed of his country - the man just suffers from incurable angst.
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:
Michal B.:
>I think every true Pole understands the importance of
those sixty three days.

Unfortunately not everyone

http://www.goldenline.pl/forum/polityka/1077920/s/1#20...

There are those, who from the comfort of their homes, in front of their monitors like to split these atoms and call those who have perished idiots.

I don't have access to the group. and so I have no idea what is written.

However, is vainglorious sacrifice a sensible path to follow?
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Michal B.

Michal B. stud.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

warren whitmore:
Rafal W.:
Michal B.:
>I think every true Pole understands the importance of
those sixty three days.

Unfortunately not everyone

http://www.goldenline.pl/forum/polityka/1077920/s/1#20...

There are those, who from the comfort of their homes, in front of their monitors like to split these atoms and call those who have perished idiots.

I don't have access to the group. and so I have no idea what is written.

However, is vainglorious sacrifice a sensible path to follow?


So much has been said on GL about the Warsaw Uprising that I do not think I can add anything more worth reading (BTW, I have no access to Polityka group either).
Vainglorious? Yes, easy to say from today's perspective.
Besides, I am sure you know the historical and diplomatic background of those days. Just think, for example, what might have happened if Roosevelt and the others had decided to play the 'cards' differently. For us, Poles it was a question of honour - a concept hard to understand these days.
This way, we could also call everything done by e.g. those who perished in Racławicka street (Polish secret service headquarters in Warsaw) vainglorious. Without any slightest sign of hope at that time of ever abolishing the communist regime, they did not ask whether their efforts would be perceived as sensible. They simply followed their sense of honour and their love of freedom.
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Temat: The '44 uprising...

You'll probably love this poem then, Michal .....

The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

1.

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

2.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

3.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

4.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

5.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

6.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4gTt6rptTU&feature=rel...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBiUWQ5YLQ4&feature=rel...warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.08.09 o godzinie 22:17
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
Project ...

Temat: The '44 uprising...

I've got something like this. Swedish band about the Warsaw Uprise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eag8Z2YkEW4Paweł Gąsior edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.08.09 o godzinie 22:01
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Michal B.

Michal B. stud.

Temat: The '44 uprising...

I know the poem. Thank you for adding it here.

However, I can still see some difference between soldiers who had no choice but to obey orders and those who decided to fight irrespective of what happens - and the orders from above were just a 'formality', if you know what I mean. There is a poem by Józef Szczepański "Czerwona zaraza" ("Red Plague" - not sure if any English translation is available on the net. It's worth reading as it gives one a picture of that time.
Roosevelt must have been glad to know that the Reds could be kept waiting on the other side of the Vistula river. On the other hand, the Reds were not coming with sweet kisses on their lips. The Home Army (and other ordinary people) knew what their fate was to be.
Post war purges and other atrocities are the best proof of that.Michal B. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.08.09 o godzinie 23:10
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: The '44 uprising...

Rafal W.:

You should never bee ashamed for something that you had nothing to do with.

Right you are :)
Teachers telling you that are just plain out stupid.

I have to defend them, though (call it Stockholm). They learned it, they had and have their reasons to believe it, and believes are needs. Cherish them but don't share them ;)
Just like you shouldn't be proud to be born here or there... you should be proud of your acomplishments.

Right on, bro!
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

@

On a serious note: Of course. No matter how your parents or your teachers teach you, it's what you, in abstraction, make out of it. The idea earlier was to point out, how different an approach might look like. Have this woven into a society as a whole, makes a country thinking, struggling, evolving.
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