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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Warren, as I said I didn't watch the whole match and what I said in my first two posts here was simply questions to those of you who watched the match. Was the referee fair, just and professional throughout the match? If so, there's nothing to talk about.
Another story is what to do with the frustrated crowd who was promised a victory.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

warren whitmore:
Lidia K.:
Then I heard the Polish president say he wanted to kill Webb.

Warren, wasn't it Prime Minister Tusk who said that?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Wendy Tweed:
... Was the referee fair, just and professional throughout the match?
I didn't have an impression he was sold. I don't think he earned money with his decision about the penalty.
Was he fair? We may never know. But he made some mistakes during the match. Like an offside, which lead Poland to make the score 1:0 against Austria

Another story is what to do with the frustrated crowd who was promised a victory.
Crowd should know, that noone can guarantee a victory.
Even if somebody does (promise), crowd should always take the failure into an account. What is this, some kind of "end of the year" show exercised by the kids?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Wendy Tweed:
warren whitmore:
Then I heard the Polish president say he wanted to kill Webb.
Warren, wasn't it Prime Minister Tusk who said that?
Yes it was. Warren mixed "president" with PM as it seems.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Wendy Tweed:
warren whitmore:
Lidia K.:
Then I heard the Polish president say he wanted to kill Webb.

Warren, wasn't it Prime Minister Tusk who said that?

Yep.

I meant to write P.M..

I believe the President also had something to say.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

I am starting to regret not seeing the match. What was the Polish coach's first reaction? Did he comment on the penalty?
His reaction must have been of prime importance here, or not?Wendy Tweed edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.06.08 o godzinie 19:14
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Wendy, Lidia, please watch the highlights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoGx_ICzgNw

These are the comments made on American television.

"A gutsy call by the official."

"I wasn't surprised the referee gave the penalty. I wish referees did this more often."

"I don't think he had any option but to give the penalty kick."

Let's go through it, again:

(1) Is pulling a players shirt a foul? Yes/No

(2) Is a foul in the penalty area a penalty? Yes/No

(3) Did the Polish player commit a foul? Yes/No

(4) Did the referee have a good view of the incident? Yes/No

(5) Had the referee issued a warning a few seconds previously Yes/No

I believe the answer to all the questions above is 'yes'.

Now:

(1) Is it an excuse that other players do this and get away with it? Yes/No

(2) Is it O.K. to do this because it's the 93rd minute of an important match? Yes/No

The answer to the questions above is a clear 'No'.

I have little doubt that the referee, in this instance, made the correct decision.

Therefore the whole campaign against him is both wrong and absurd.

And even if he had made a mistake, the campaign would still be wrong.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.06.08 o godzinie 19:32
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

It's oh sooo Polish. First Podolski, then Webb. No, I wasn't exhilarated when I saw the 93rd minute, who would be? But this is life, shit happens, people make mistakes (and I'm talking both about the referee and the footballers). How come nobody protested when Polish team scored unfairly in the first half? Situations like this put me off watching football. Polish football fans will always find someone to act as a scapegoat to vent their frustration at. Sad.
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

warren whitmore:

And even if he had made a mistake, the campaign would still be wrong.

Agreed.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Sylwia, nice to see you back.
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Marcin Swider

Marcin Swider Senior Credit
Manager, Citigroup

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Warren, hate campaign or not, as a fan of English Premiership, I would like to point out that "fouls" like that happen regularly during all Prem matches.
Those who "support" the ref probably believe that nobody pulls an opponent shirt in England... laughable... such "tussles" in the penalty area are common practice, especially in the Premiership... this is football, not a cricket game...

I ask myself one question - would Mr. give such a penalty in the Premiership? Most probably not, as he would have to give probably 5 in each game he officiates...
Hence, I cannot support your motion
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Marcin Swider:
... such "tussles" in the penalty area are common practice, especially in the Premiership... this is football, not a cricket game...
Yes, but the player was warned by the referee to not repeat it before he gave the penalty, they say.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

As Keith points out in another thread, it's a bit like speeding.

It's against the law, but everyone does it.

Now, are we going to start a hate campaign against a policeman for issuing someone with a ticket?

The ref gave the penalty because (a) he had just issued a warning and (b) the defender did it blatantly, right in front of him.

He had no other option.

Blame the defender, not the ref.

He didn't have to pull an opponents shirt, this was his choice, and he and his team have to take the consequences.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.06.08 o godzinie 00:42
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Marcin Swider

Marcin Swider Senior Credit
Manager, Citigroup

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

I admit Lewandowski held the opponent shirt, while the player in question fell, although he had no chance of getting to the ball (it was going much higher and, hence, beyond him) but at the same time behind them another Austrian player was pushing Bak to the ground...
I simply reiterate my point - there are plenty of such "tussles" every game and penalties are not given... and refs and their rules SHOULD be consistent!!!
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Of course refs should be consistent.

But none of this alters the fact that a Polish player commited a foul in the penalty area for which he was justly penalised.

If I am taken to court for beating my wife, can I claim that a lot of other people do it and get away with it, and therefore I shouldn't be punished?
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Referees are referees. You don't argue with the court of law.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

warren whitmore:
Of course refs should be consistent.

But none of this alters the fact that a Polish player commited a foul in the penalty area for which he was justly penalised.

If I am taken to court for beating my wife, can I claim that a lot of other people do it and get away with it, and therefore I shouldn't be punished?

Warren - partly I agree with You. I must admit that after that game I was blaming the referee for that decision - especially that it was 92 min.)
I think there is nothing else to discuss. Our team will go home and it is not because Mr. Howards Webb decision but because they were the worst team on Euro 2008.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

Marek Kuraś:
Warren - partly I agree with You. I must admit that after that game I was blaming the referee for that decision - especially that it was 92 min.)
I think there is nothing else to discuss. Our team will go home and it is not because Mr. Howards Webb decision but because they were the worst team on Euro 2008.

Thank you.

That was a mature response.

Sometimes you just have to, 'take it on the chin'.

England haven't won a major tournament for over 40 years.

The football authorities in England have to think about how the team can improve its performances, and not look for scapegoats or excuses.

Same with the Poland team.
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Sylwia D.

Sylwia D. Człowiek Aktywny

Temat: Support Howard Webb:

The football authorities in England have to think about how the team can improve its performances, and not look for scapegoats or excuses.

Same with the Poland team.

I agree. Even if our team won with Austria it wouldn't change anything. I'm ashamed for people who can't take the loss with dignity. I'm afraid that we - as a nation - will be perceived as people full of hate and anger.
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Temat: Support Howard Webb:

I enjoyed the fanpics though.
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