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Temat: Social balls-ups

"Cześć, Pan," I used to say by mistake.
_______________________________________

Today I ended up in Canada, taking my sister for a ride. It's only less that 100 k. When the border guy asked if I had anything to declare I answered "Yeah. My sister is an idiot."

Didn't even crack a smile. He just pointed to where he wanted me to pull over...so they could practically take my car APART.

Who doesn't like a little play on words once in a while?

Ppffft. Canadians. Can't joke with 'em, can't shoot 'em. :)
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Joj Y.:
"Cześć, Pan," I used to say by mistake.
_______________________________________

Today I ended up in Canada, taking my sister for a ride. It's only less that 100 k. When the border guy asked if I had anything to declare I answered "Yeah. My sister is an idiot."
Hahaha you just made my day, J-man !!!!
Didn't even crack a smile. He just pointed to where he wanted me to pull over...so they could practically take my car APART.

Who doesn't like a little play on words once in a while?

Ppffft. Canadians. Can't joke with 'em, can't shoot 'em. :)


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Jarek A. edytował(a) ten post dnia 08.09.08 o godzinie 07:25
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Joj Y.:
"Cześć, Pan," I used to say by mistake.
_______________________________________

Today I ended up in Canada, taking my sister for a ride. It's only less that 100 k. When the border guy asked if I had anything to declare I answered "Yeah. My sister is an idiot."

Didn't even crack a smile. He just pointed to where he wanted me to pull over...so they could practically take my car APART.

Imagine a tour bus with 23 people on it and over 8000 watts of sound, few thousand records, analog gear and 6 hrs lined up against the bus after being told to take everything off of it, taking speakers apart going through every record and piece of gear, having dogs smell you 5 or 6 times and being unable to use the bathroom until they were finished with you ... all that on a nice hot 100 degree July day... I wanted to vomit when they finished with us.
Who doesn't like a little play on words once in a while?

ehm... pigs... I mean - cops, airport security and border patrol.
Ppffft. Canadians. Can't joke with 'em, can't
shoot 'em. :)

Where is the fun in that? On a good day our Salvation Army could kick their ass :)
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Adam Lipiński:
I give them a Vincent Vega look and say "it's pretty far from OK" or simply "nie jestem z tobą na ty". Especially if > it's another driver or someone who quarrels with me in the
queue.

I've always felt that the whole Pan/Pani thing is a bit awkward. I mean, I understand the need for respect for elders... but it creates a rather unwelcoming vibe and unless you want to come off as an individual who is not one for kinship... why bother?
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Raf i Jarku: HONK! HONK! HONK!

HONK!

HONK! HONK! HONK! :)))
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Temat: Social balls-ups


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Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 08.09.08 o godzinie 21:19
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

I find the Pan/Pani form useful and natural (between Poles).

With foreigners it's hard to expect them to use the third person singular instead of the second, when they (usually) struggle with the Polish grammar.

I think it's good to be able to adjust to different forms in the languages we use. Pragmatics is part of the language.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Lidia K.:
I find the Pan/Pani form useful and natural (between Poles).
Clearly it's natural, cos it's part of your native language.

"useful" is more intriguing.... In what ways is it useful?
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

It's useful in the way that it is easier to say no, for example :)
And people (would) think twice before they make personal comment if they don't use the first names.

For me it's also a way to detach myself from the world of work. I'm extermely formal there hehehehe.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Lidia K.:
It's useful in the way that it is easier to say no, for example :)
And people (would) think twice before they make personal comment if they don't use the first names.

For me it's also a way to detach myself from the world of work. I'm extermely formal there hehehehe.

From my perspective it just sounds "cold" rather than "useful".

It's often said that one's ability to forge ahead in life will be determined by one's ability to make alliances, well the "how to make friends and influence people" approach.

To my mind, putting up barriers would not be in anyone's favour.

One thing I have to add, though: this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't have such linguistic structures in his native language... I just don't "feel" the thing, so I might be a little out of whack here...Steve Jones edytował(a) ten post dnia 08.09.08 o godzinie 22:58
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Temat: Social balls-ups

That's a good way to relate it. I don't feel it either.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

I don't know Steve, this is mostly theory here.

It's all filtered through the personality of the 'barrier person'.
I never said I was very successful or that I've forged ahead in life.
I simply cannot collect many friends or allow too many people around without feeling it as a harm to myself.

So Pan/Pani is a nice and acceptable way of keeping them at a safe distance.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Social balls-ups

So Pan/Pani is a nice and acceptable way of keeping them at a safe distance.

At what point and how would you decide to drop the pan/ pani stuff?

And, perhaps a more interesting question, when you speak English (given that it makes no grammatical distinction like pan/ ty), do you feel uncomfortable in any way... like there's the lack of some demarkation line or something?
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Unfortunately, the pan/pani forms are obligatory in Polish. It`s a part of our culture. Sometimes I wonder why we have names at all. (Even the teachers at schools use the children`s surnames, which is really disgusting, in my opinion.)

Some professionals tend to limit the use of the formal forms - artists, some academic groups (though some use titles), etc.

I can never understand people who work together and use the formal forms for years but sometimes I`m helpless.

As far as foreigners are concerned, I think it depends on how fluent they are in Polish. I don`t mind them using my name but people generally demand a better knowledge of language culture if they are fluent.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Another question:

a five year old (were talking about Poles here) meets another five year old: they both use the 'ty' form

an 18 year old meeting another 18 year old, same thing I guess

how about a 25 year old meeting a 25 year old?

a 37 year old and a 37 year old?

a 37 year old and an 18 year old?
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

Steve Jones:
So Pan/Pani is a nice and acceptable way of keeping them at a safe distance.

At what point and how would you decide to drop the pan/ pani stuff?
There are good manners rules (SV), and most people who know them, follow them automatically. E.g. it's usually the woman who proposes to drop it, or the superior (if it's some kind of hierarchy).

Usually it happens automatically but we also have an embarassing 'bruderschaft tradition' - when you finally and offcially start using someone's first name but first you drink a shot of vodka and kiss (!). Don't tell me you've never heard about it! ;)

And, perhaps a more interesting question, when you speak English (given that it makes no grammatical distinction like pan/ ty), do you feel uncomfortable in any way... like there's the lack of some demarkation line or something?
No, I usually go with the flow. I think I'm quite good at it.

But for example, I'd never use the first name of a Korean company president who happens to speak English in a formal setting to address him.
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Temat: Social balls-ups

Steve Jones:
Another question:

a five year old (were talking about Poles here) meets another five year old: they both use the 'ty' form

an 18 year old meeting another 18 year old, same thing I guess

how about a 25 year old meeting a 25 year old?
Students will use the "ty" form, as well as everybody on social occasions

a 37 year old and a 37 year old?
Pan/pani

a 37 year old and an 18 year old?
Pan/pani. If the person looks very young, "ty" is possible:)Even if the 37 year old uses the "ty" form", the younger one will always refer to him/her using the formal form.Violetta P. edytował(a) ten post dnia 08.09.08 o godzinie 23:23
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

Steve Jones:
Another question:

a five year old (were talking about Poles here) meets another five year old: they both use the 'ty' form

an 18 year old meeting another 18 year old, same thing I guess

how about a 25 year old meeting a 25 year old?

a 37 year old and a 37 year old?

a 37 year old and an 18 year old?
hahahhhaa! wonderful!
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Temat: Social balls-ups

And here in GL, whenever a lawyer writes to me, they use the "pani" form.

I wanted to write that nobody else but I realised it wasn`t true. Also some academics.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Social balls-ups

It's usually safer to use Pan/Pani as you may get a rude comment like "We weren't grazing pigs/cows together" meaning that you should keep the distance. It's likely in situations mentioned by Adam - pubs, etc.
Not at work!
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