Ilter K.

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Katarzyna S.:
... Yes, I'm the yes to legalising soft drugs, no to hard ones.
But why "no" to hard ones?

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

ilter K.:
Katarzyna S.:
... Yes, I'm the yes to legalising soft drugs, no to hard ones.
But why "no" to hard ones?

Better yet, how do you decide which drug is a hard drug? Is LSD harder than a mushroom? Or is cocaine worst than heroine? How about weed from hash or hash from opium?
Technically speaking all drugs are addictive mentally or physically, so how would we decide? I think it's either all or none at all; otherwise it's not taking care of the problem but simply covering it up.

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Rafal W.:
Better yet, how do you decide which drug is a hard drug? Is LSD harder than a mushroom? Or is cocaine worst than heroine? How about weed from hash or hash from opium?

The category itself is loose, true. However, examples of soft drugs include cannabis, DMT, mescaline, psilocybin, and LSD. Effects of mj are different from the ones of opium. Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine - soft drugs, addictive and definitely harmful, with huge Ministry of Health warning labels - are perfectly legal.
Technically speaking all drugs are addictive mentally or physically, so how would we decide? I think it's either all or none at all; otherwise it's not taking care of the problem but simply covering it up.

The discussion is not about what drugs are soft and why soft, not hard. And the topic is relevant, don't kill it, pretty please with sugar on :) My point was: if they're legal, what changes?

Anyway. If you're the "no" type, you don't have to take them. If you are the "yes" type, you end up making the distributors paying taxes and so on.Katarzyna S. edytował(a) ten post dnia 29.09.08 o godzinie 22:01
Steve Jones

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

ilter K.:
Katarzyna S.:
... Yes, I'm the yes to legalising soft drugs, no to hard ones.
But why "no" to hard ones?

Indeed. Maintaining illegal status keeps them underground and perpetuates the problems connected with criminality.
Steve Jones

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Michał B.:
Steve Jones:
Michał B.:
Steve Jones:
>the death penalty for those who
offer drugs illegally.

Err, you are joking, aren't you....?

Yes, sadly, I am.

Are you a fan of "forbidden fruit"?
No, I am not and I have never even tried this forbidden fruit. Somehow I have never felt tempted to, as some of my friends say,

It's not really about whether it's forbidden or not... That isn't the reason why people take drugs.

People take drugs to get off their heads. Some people don't really fancy that, or at least not such an extreme version

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Steve Jones:
It's not really about whether it's forbidden or not... That isn't the reason why people take drugs.

People take drugs to get off their heads. Some people don't really fancy that, or at least not such an extreme version

I disagree.

I'd say a lot of the attraction of illegal drugs is simply the fact that they are illegal.

If liquorice was made illegal I'm sure you'd get a lot of dimwits whose main topic of converstion would be how much liquorice they'd consumed, where you can score liquorice, the best brands of liquorice, so on and so forth.

If I was to start a group on goldenline called DO NOT JOIN THIS GROUP, I'm sure it would attract members. I'm equally sure that the stronger and more repetitive the warnings and threats I made against others joining the group, the larger the group would be.
Steve Jones

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

warren whitmore:
Steve Jones:
It's not really about whether it's forbidden or not... That isn't the reason why people take drugs.

People take drugs to get off their heads. Some people don't really fancy that, or at least not such an extreme version

I disagree.

I'd say a lot of the attraction of illegal drugs is simply the fact that they are illegal.
Well, I just thought it was interesting that Michal B said something similar yet found it didn't really apply to himself. I think he isn't alone. I don't find myself wondering how cool it would be to hijack a bus, even though it's illegal to do so.
If liquorice was made illegal I'm sure you'd get a lot of dimwits whose main topic of converstion would be how much liquorice they'd consumed, where you can score liquorice, the best brands of liquorice, so on and so forth.

If I was to start a group on goldenline called DO NOT JOIN THIS GROUP, I'm sure it would attract members. I'm equally sure that the stronger and more repetitive the warnings and threats I made against others joining the group, the larger the group would be.

Try it and see!

Temat: say no to them or legalise?

I think there are many reasons why people take drugs because there are so many different people. Some of them use drugs coz they mates used them. Teenagers are trying to find out how it taste or trying to forget about their problems (for some of them it's just a easy way out). But it all starts quite early and of course at the beginning it doesn't taste so nice.

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

We are all products of our environment, no matter how much we may not think that we are. If someone is born in a neighborhood where 90% of buildings have boarded up windows, extensive fire and water damage, with cockroach infested wall papered walls, with leaking ceilings, no heat in the winter, shootings, rape and stabbings every night, metal detectors, armed guards patrolling school hallways and someone trying to sell them drugs or have him/her sell drugs and make in one hour what their mom and dad make in a week working three factory jobs... I think that person would have an extremely different opinion of the world and what it's like than an ivy graduate named Jeffrey Spencer whose greatest challenge in life was taking the SAT exam.

Both of them will have absolutely different personal reasons and personal experiences if they would decide to try; at the same time they don't really ever have to if they choose not to.
Reasons for indulging in drug binges are many, probably as many as people who have tried them... at this point in time at least.
Different people will assign various reasons of which some may include things like spirituality, enlightenment, progress, study etc, etc.. I think it's a lot simpler than that. It's to feel different... that's all. It's the eternal question - "what's it like to be someone else". Especially when it comes to hallucinogens or dissociative type things. Cannabis on the other hand is the "beer of drugs" for many people.
I may be wrong.

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

warren whitmore:
I disagree.

I'd say a lot of the attraction of illegal drugs is simply the fact that they are illegal.

If liquorice was made illegal I'm sure you'd get a lot of dimwits whose main topic of converstion would be how much liquorice they'd consumed, where you can score liquorice, the best brands of liquorice, so on and so forth.
I'm with Steve on this one. People have been using "mind/body" enhancers for ages, for thousands of years even (just think of the peruan Indios chewing on coke leaves), since long before anyone thought of making them (drugs) illegal.Jarek A. edytował(a) ten post dnia 30.09.08 o godzinie 07:39
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Jarek A.:
warren whitmore:
I disagree.

I'd say a lot of the attraction of illegal drugs is simply the fact that they are illegal.

If liquorice was made illegal I'm sure you'd get a lot of dimwits whose main topic of converstion would be how much liquorice they'd consumed, where you can score liquorice, the best brands of liquorice, so on and so forth.
I'm with Steve on this one. People have been using "mind/body" enhancers for ages, for thousands of years even (just think of the peruan Indios chewing on coke leaves), since long before anyone thought of making them (drugs) illegal.
I'm with Jarek and Steve on this one.
Jon M.

Jon M. Technical/Offshore
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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

In the days of prohibition in the US, illegal alcohol flourished. Keeping narcotics illegal does indeed provide an environment where crime flourishes.

And if people want to buy something they like, why not? The harm that drugs can cause in society has so much to do with them being illegal and expensive.

Temat: say no to them or legalise?

I'm to keep them illegal.

I would think that the prohibition is good to keep it away from kids.
Theoretically we have a strict law about selling cigarettes and alcohol to kids (ID required, etc.), although these kinds of poison are available to adults.

Of course it's not a big problem to get it anyway, but I think there should be a very strict policy about making and keeping drugs illegal.

Have we found any successful ways to help drug addicts quit yet?

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Lidia K.:
I would think that the prohibition is good to keep it away from kids.
Of course it's not a big problem to get it anyway, but I think there should be a very strict policy about making and keeping drugs illegal.

Have we found any successful ways to help drug addicts quit yet?

Have we found any succesful ways to keep fags or booze away from kids?
Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Lidia K.:
I'm to keep them illegal.

I would think that the prohibition is good to keep it away from kids.

Unfortunately, though, it doesn't work in practice. Kids buy illegal drugs. Where there is a demand, there will be a supply.
Theoretically we have a strict law about selling cigarettes and alcohol to kids (ID required, etc.), although these kinds of poison are available to adults.

Of course it's not a big problem to get it anyway, but I think there should be a very strict policy about making and keeping drugs illegal.
>
this will only perpetuate the status who of gang-controlled drug trafficing with all the corruption, slavery and death it entails while in the meantime the taxpayers piss billions down the toilet and the police piss in the wind
Have we found any successful ways to help drug addicts quit yet?

yes. Millions of smokers quit every year by various means. Alcoholics have help available which allows a great many to live normal lives.Steve Jones edytował(a) ten post dnia 30.09.08 o godzinie 21:48

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

I would also say ... no to drugs

But what with alcohol ? Is this not a drug ? Many people are alcoholic ... This is also a problem that causes a lot of problems in families. How many people die thanks to this 'drug' ?

Temat: say no to them or legalise?

I just stated my position as Katarzyna requested for polarization of opinions :-)
Steve Jones

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Guy C.:
I would also say ... no to drugs

But what with alcohol ? Is this not a drug ? Many people are alcoholic ... This is also a problem that causes a lot of problems in families. How many people die thanks to this 'drug' ?

Indeed. Either make them all legal or all illegal; that would seem the most logical solution.

Most drugs that are now illegal used to be legal. Opium used to be legal. MDMA used to be legal. So did LSD and cocaine. I suspect that when opium was legal it enjoyed some supporters while others stayed clear of it.

Glue is a legal substance. Readily available. Personally, though, I've never sniffed it to get a high. Why? Because it always seemed pretty repulsive to me. And I didn't fancy getting brain rot. Nothing to do with its legal status or otherwise. Just an informed choice.

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Temat: say no to them or legalise?

Steve Jones:
Lidia K.:
I'm to keep them illegal.

I would think that the prohibition is good to keep it away from kids.

Unfortunately, though, it doesn't work in practice. Kids buy illegal drugs.

Kids shoot other kids over drug money, kids kill each other over drugs, kids create gangs to distribute drugs, kids end up in prison over drugs where they learn more about them and make serious connections, come out of prison and become professional criminals with connections, so now they are adults who will kill or be killed for drugs or drug money... its a vicious circle. If we spend half of what is being spend on the so called war on drugs on recovery centers, rehabs and prevention methods we will have a much greater chance of winning against addiction.

The day when we make drugs legal, would be the day where most if not almost the entire organized crime would receive a crippling if not a disabling blow (no pun intended).

Also to think that arresting street thugs and dealers is making progress is ludicrous. This is also a multimillion dollar business and anyone thinking that street level thugs can afford airplanes, boats and paying off border patrol is pretty naive or simply making way too much profit on this being illegal. The latter one being the case in most parts of the world.
For example, this is a study done over 10 years ago in California by the University of Berkeley (now numbers of prisoners in the past decade have grown substantially so we can most likely nearly double this number)

"California prison factories generate $150 million in sales each year"

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/98legacy/06-25...

and this is just a single state!

So why are drugs illegal? During the Chinese immigrant influx in California at the turn of the century, Opium dens were made illegal simply because they were a huge part of the Chinese culture... the state also made braids and traditional Chinese tunics against the law. The irony of the Chinese opium epidemic, is that it was brought back in by the white man to begin with after the country wide opium ban.
Next were Mexicans and the stories of Mexican workers raping white women after smoking joints became pretty popular.
Ecstasy bars were very popular in the states in the 50's, cocaine, morphine, opium and heroin were used as pain killers, anesthetics and cold remedies all through out the Civil War. In Russia you were able to buy cocaine pills in the 50's as throat and cough medicine.

Prohibition of alcohol in the states created Al Capone has boosted the organized crime to levels previously unimaginable. Moonshiners made fortunes... same families that used to hide in places like the Appalachian mountains to run moonshine business', now grow marijuana.
If you ban cigarettes or tax them so much that they will become to expensive of a habit it will spawn new black market so satisfy those who crave nicotine. It's already starting here in the US actually where you can illegally purchase single loose cigarettes "loosies" at some corner stores... or cheap cartons on the street.

So yea.. reverse psychology doesn't only apply to children ;)Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.10.08 o godzinie 03:12

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Katarzyna S.:
are you a:

a/ say no to drugs
I have tried several drugs in order to recognize their effects. Cocaine. for example: I may as well have been ingesting sand from and hourglass. No effect. Pfft. Weed: ehh...not my thing, never was, but it's one of my all-time favorite smells. Several others. Smoked hash, smoked opium, etc. :) I wasn't succeptible to goin' fiend because I wasn't in the market for any degree of escape beyond the occasional Hollywood movie. I genuinely wanted to know the effects.

Say No.

...BUT.
or

b/ legalise them

type?
I agree with Raf in his principles about the prison system as it relates to drug convictions in the US. Definitely legalize marijuana full blast.Joj Y. edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.10.08 o godzinie 05:25

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