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Temat: REAL music

> Guy Cautaerts:
>
> > Tomasz Krzal:
> >
> > > Guy Cautaerts:
> > >
> > > > Tomasz Krzal:
> > > > And no one listens to REAL music like tekkno,
> > > > drum'n'bass, house????? ;)
> > > Don't hesitate to create a 'nowy temat' for your REAL
> > > music :)
> >
> > I afraid I'll be then THE ONE in that 'nowy temat' :D
> Don't be pessimistic :), just try ... If you want ... I can send
> you also links
> In my opinion ... REAL music doesn't exist or can you give me
> definition or better the characteristics of REAL music: I will be
> glad to read this :))
> (even I don't pretend that classical music is REAL music, I only
> know that classical music is played already for centuries, ...)

Ok, I started a new topic :)

Necessary background:
Long time ago, in prehistory, soon after creating the world, in Paradise, when men weren't shy in contacts with women (they just banged them for a date by using stone black-jack :) ), a MUSIC was created. It was a simple music, but in order to be interesting for masses it had to be rhythmic. Why? See the next point.

What is a REAL music?
Almost every kind of music of all times has an important goal: reaching Heavens,transcendental states, Second Worlds, freedom of mind, etc. It's especially easy in connection to a dance.

But now, people are more intelligent and, I think, more shy. So in general, they like to listen to more "counterbalanced" music like classical one. So called "elites" "like" to listen to such music (despite of theirs real preferences) because they think that only "high class" music is appropriate for'em. They deny themselves.
From the other hand we have young people (mostly) attending to discos, underground clubs or techno or rave parties. I think they are more true. They can listen to theirs very low levels of their mentality, where we are truly connected to The Nature, God, whatever name IT has.
So REAL music free us. For comparison, classical music has no such power. AND...is not true :)
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Łukasz G.

Łukasz G. Senior Technical
Sales Manager w
Tripleplay Ltd.

Temat: REAL music

I do apologise, but .... what you are saying (in my view) is rubbish... and causes unnecessary kerfuffle (love that word!)

REAL music is made with MUSIC INSTRUMENTS, not PC's.
Can you see my point?
I am not a musician, but I am highly sensitive to MUSIC.
I would be able to create drum'n'base music within 30mins on a PC.
Does it make me an amazing artist (pseudo DJs and all sorts of that jazz)?

I would not like to say that drum'n'base is wrong cause I love it (I listen to everything), but I wouldn't risk stating that electronic music is the one and only REAL MUSIC ;>

Anyway, I do not think there is much point in proving right and wrong (and left ;))

Let everyone listen to what they feel like, and what they love...

Peace...
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: REAL music

IMHO, what you both say doesn't hold water. I listen to DnB and I love remixes, while at the same time I play congas, listen to (some) classical music and as far as I'm concerned this is real music for me. In fact, all music I've posted is real - it's been composed and performed by real people (even if that involved the use of electronic equipment at some point). Someone had to tell the computers what to do.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: REAL music

Sylwia is right.

You guys, you need to free your minds. :)
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Temat: REAL music

I would be able to create drum'n'base music within 30mins on a PC.
I'm not sure (I've never been a music producer) but jazz (which is regarded as high class music too) can be created on PC in 30 minutes too. But in both cases (30m d'n'b and jazz) it would be a problem to attract larger amount of people :) In both cases I need to be talented. Louis Armstrong is wonderful in jazz but would probably be bad in d'n'b.
In fact, all music I've posted is real - it's been composed and performed by >real people (even if that involved the use of electronic equipment at some >point)
REAL music doesn't mean "music taken from reality". I meant "TRUE music".
You guys, you need to free your minds. :)

Sure, let's play REAL music, whatever it is for us :) You hear house music from my house in Krosno, my family city? Sorry, I'll volume down :)
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Temat: REAL music

Lukasz G.:
I do apologise, but .... what you are saying (in my view) is rubbish... and causes unnecessary kerfuffle (love that word!)

REAL music is made with MUSIC INSTRUMENTS, not
PC's.

nope... in this day and age, a lot of what you hear out there is made using digital means. Computers ARE instruments, just like drum machines, samplers, 808's, 303's, 909's are instruments, just like turn tables are instruments. They are means to an end. They are the logical step in technological progression. We started off with rocks and sticks, moved on to bongos and drums, classical instruments and now we can imitate any sound with a digital media instrument. At one point we had to smash someone's toe to get that high pitch sound, now all we need is a recording of white noise put it through distortion, maybe a flanger, scrubby, crazy ivan, or some other plug and we get a similar if not same sound (this is a joke of course).
Can you see my point?
I am not a musician, but I am highly sensitive to > MUSIC.
I would be able to create drum'n'base music within > 30mins on a PC.

I'd love to see you try it, breaks (of course sequenced with out the over use of the Amen break or other mainly James Brown related loops) are probably the most difficult and complex patterns to sequence. It may sound easy and fun, and it sure is fun... but don't knock it 'till you try it.


I would not like to say that drum'n'base is wrong > cause I love it (I listen to everything), but I wouldn't risk
stating that electronic music is the one and only REAL
MUSIC ;>

I think that we got off on a wrong foot here. There is no such thing as REAL music; it is all an abstract idea, just like most art forms. What I think he was trying to say (correct me if I am wrong) that there is just not enough underground music that gets the proper exposure that it rightfully disserves. I would agree with that 100%.
I listen to hundreds of releases monthly and NONE of them will ever make it to the airwaives, which does not make them bad pieces of music at all. Underground is what has been driving the music industry since day one, majority (no, I didnt say all) of original sounds that we enjoy today, derived from underground cultures be it Jazz, Punk, Alternative, Metal or others...

Anyway, I do not think there is much point in
proving right and wrong (and left ;))

That's correct, because there is no such thing as better music than.... to each his own.
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Temat: REAL music

Tomasz Krzal:
Sure, let's play REAL music, whatever it is for
us :) You hear house music from my house in Krosno, my family
city? Sorry, I'll volume down :)

See if you really want to dissect this subject - House music in many electronic music circles is considered mainstream and as far from what I am guessing you are calling "REAL" music.
You did mentioned Tekno... are you referring to tribe/acid/hardtek network23 type sound or was it just a purposeful misspelling on your part?
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Temat: REAL music

Rafal, REAL music is for me and in other words, such music which can free you. What is that "freedom"? It's simple, try to dance wildly in discos with classical music at the background :D See the difference? ;)

House is of course a REAL music, in terms of above definition.

>You did mentioned Tekno... are you referring to tribe/acid/hardtek network23 >type sound or was it just a purposeful misspelling on your part?

It is hard subject because tekkno is a container word. It stores acid, even house, trance, d'n'b and maaany others. Precise definitions aren't possible (or at least I haven't heard those). For example, let's define d'n'b as a music with "broken bits". Is it true in reference ONLY to d'n'b? I think no, some kind of jazz can have such bits, but surely jazz is not one of many kinds of d'n'b, right? :)
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: REAL music

You are talking about music and tastes. Both things are subjective.
What is REAL for you, might be a CRAP for another.
And other's REAL might be crap for you.
I don't really understand the reason of your discussion. And where you are aiming at?

Did anyone call your taste of music as UNREAL?
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: REAL music

Tomasz Krzal:
Rafal, REAL music is for me and in other words, such music which can free you. What is that "freedom"? It's simple, try to dance wildly in discos with classical music at the background :D See the difference? ;)

House is of course a REAL music, in terms of above definition.

>You did mentioned Tekno... are you referring to tribe/acid/hardtek network23 >type sound or was it just a purposeful misspelling on your part?

It is hard subject because tekkno is a container word. It stores acid, even house, trance, d'n'b and maaany others. Precise definitions aren't possible (or at least I haven't heard those). For example, let's define d'n'b as a music with "broken bits". Is it true in reference ONLY to d'n'b? I think no, some kind of jazz can have such bits, but surely jazz is not one of many kinds of d'n'b, right? :)

Not sure I get your point. When I need to wind down, I listen do Ludovico Einaudi or Richard Bona. When in the club, it used to be Roni Size, but now probably more like Timbaland flavoured music, EBTG in mz headphones and at weddings after a few drinks you would see me dancing to Dragostea din tei. And all these kinds of music create a sense of freedom in my mind.

I have a feeling this is a bit like arguing whether a red square on white background counts as real art. If it is for you, so be it.Sylwia Łubkowska edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.06.08 o godzinie 16:06
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Anna S.

Anna S. IT recruitment and
Business Development
Consultant at Vm.pl

Temat: REAL music

Lukasz G.:
I do apologise, but .... what you are saying (in my view) is rubbish... and causes unnecessary kerfuffle (love that word!)

REAL music is made with MUSIC INSTRUMENTS, not PC's.
Can you see my point?
I am not a musician, but I am highly sensitive to MUSIC.
I would be able to create drum'n'base music within 30mins on a PC.
Does it make me an amazing artist (pseudo DJs and all sorts of that jazz)?

I would not like to say that drum'n'base is wrong cause I love it (I listen to everything), but I wouldn't risk stating that electronic music is the one and only REAL MUSIC ;>

Anyway, I do not think there is much point in proving right and wrong (and left ;))

Let everyone listen to what they feel like, and what they love...

Peace...


I used to feel the same thing about the piece-of-cakedeness (sorry for the invented word) of creating dnb track until I tried to do it myself - and trust me it ain't as easy as you think. Or if you think otherwise why don't you really try it and show it to us:)

and before you reply bear in mind that even tough I am far from a professional musician I have 5 years of elementary music school (once upon a time) and know how difficult is to master any instrument let alone the piano (my thing.

if the real music is made with instruments, do we get to hear any real music at the radio lately?

I should hum some real music to myself:)
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Łukasz G.

Łukasz G. Senior Technical
Sales Manager w
Tripleplay Ltd.

Temat: REAL music

ilter Kalkanci:
Sylwia is right.

You guys, you need to free your minds. :)
I know she is right and my mind is open, as I drive SAAB ;)


Obrazek
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: REAL music

Ok Łukasz, if you belive Sylwia is right, no problem then.
When you wrote
... REAL music is made with MUSIC INSTRUMENTS, not PC's.
Can you see my point?
I am not a musician, but I am highly sensitive to MUSIC.
I would be able to create drum'n'base music within 30mins on a PC.
Does it make me an amazing artist (pseudo DJs and all sorts of that jazz)?
I thought you don't know what you are talking about.
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Temat: REAL music

Tomasz Krzal:
Rafal, REAL music is for me and in other words, such music which can free you. What is that "freedom"? It's simple, try to dance wildly in discos with classical music at the background :D See the difference? ;)

Hmm... a rather weird approach. I love electronic music and have been around it for a very long time; I would definitely not classify electronica as the only real music. Freedom is a state of mind not body, if you free your mind - your ass will follow. I attend and organize many parties and don't dance myself, I like to ravage in sound rather than sweat to it. I enjoy the actual over all effect of the carnivalesque aura of electronic music events.


It is hard subject because tekkno is a container
word. It stores acid, even house, trance, d'n'b and maaany others.

Tekno defines a culture not sound, the "K" instead of "CH" is actually very symbolic in gentrification process of this particular sound, but that's a topic for a completely different conversation.
Precise definitions aren't possible (or at least I haven't > heard those).

That goes for pretty much any and all styles of new sounds. Although tekno and it's subculture have been around since late 80's and early 90's it is still considered a very young style which is constantly evolving. Personally I really don't like gentrification, it does make things easier when it comes to explaining them and what not, yet it also creates certain invisible boundaries, which in term create purists... which is extremely limiting sort of like faith.
For example, let's define d'n'b as a music
with "broken bits". Is it true in reference ONLY to d'n'b? I think no,

Definitely not - Big Beat, UK Hardcore, Jump Up, Grime, Garage, Electro, Breakcore, Jungle, IDM, electro-tek, breakatek and the list goes on and on... Jazz beeing the actual fundamental root of it. Actually if you want to get even more teknical, you can look up the Amen Brothers and the infamous "Amen break" which I like to call - the busiest sample in the business which was pretty much THE main force behind majority of looped and sampled dance music which includes Hip Hop.

some kind of jazz can have such bits, but surely jazz is not one of > many kinds of d'n'b, right? :)

No, but just like DnB it used to be underground and limited to small smoke filled clubs where a bunch of honkey white people would get down and boogie with the brothers... something that was looked down upon by the vast majority of people, actual laws were passed to prevent these even from happening, just like these days laws are being passed to prevent free electronic music events, raves and such... it's always the same old story.
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Temat: REAL music

ilter Kalkanci:
You are talking about music and tastes. Both things are subjective.
What is REAL for you, might be a CRAP for another.
And other's REAL might be crap for you.
I don't really understand the reason of your discussion. And where you are aiming at?

Did anyone call your taste of music as UNREAL?

What have you wrote is deadly true :)

But let's start from scratch: I wrote about freeing influence of our favourite music for us. As Sylwia has noticed in her last sentence:
Not sure I get your point. When I need to wind down, I listen do Ludovico > Einaudi or Richard Bona. When in the club, it used to be Roni Size, but >now probably more like Timbaland flavoured music, EBTG in mz headphones and >at weddings after a few drinks you would see me dancing to Dragostea din >tei. And all these kinds of music create a sense of freedom in my mind.

, music from above mentioned favourite artists makes hers mind free. And that's the point: REAL (favourite) music makes us free.
For my mind, other genres of music are proper to free my mind: techno, d'n'b, house, etc.

Maybe my fault is that in my first post I should have replace word REAL with word FAVOURITE. But last word does not sound good to me :)

That's all :)
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Temat: REAL music

As Albert Einstein said - "it is all relevant" then he put on his favorite record and came up with a theory.
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Łukasz G.

Łukasz G. Senior Technical
Sales Manager w
Tripleplay Ltd.

Temat: REAL music

ilter Kalkanci:
I thought you don't know what you are talking about.
Oh, I love when people are so literal ;)
I guess that when I wrote (in my view) it does not matter, right?

I shall say now: REAL music is music one enjoys, and is only REAL for that person at that specific given time.
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: REAL music

Tomasz Krzal:
Maybe my fault is that in my first post I should have replace word REAL with word FAVOURITE. But last word does not sound good to me :)

That's all :)

I think you should have. In which case you might as well have post your favourite songs in the top 10 tunes thread. Or you could have created a new thread called DnB etc. if you wanted to discuss this genre in more detail. Your heading just created a lot of confusion.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: REAL music

Lukasz G.:
Oh, I love when people are so literal ;)
I hope I didn't hurt your feelings.
But I like to play with words, sometimes. :)
I guess that when I wrote (in my view) it does not matter, right?
Surely it matters.

But if you misspell a music style, and in the same message claim that you can produce that in 30 minutes, as a musician, it is very easy for me to be sarcastic.
I shall say now: REAL music is music one enjoys, and is only REAL for that person at that specific given time.
Closer to the idea which can be less criticized.

That thing shouldn't make you say: "The other styles are not real". But we have the freedom of speech. Of course.

I hope we're still friends.
I'm good at heart Łukasz, believe me. :)
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Łukasz G.

Łukasz G. Senior Technical
Sales Manager w
Tripleplay Ltd.

Temat: REAL music

ilter Kalkanci:
I hope we're still friends.
I'm good at heart Łukasz, believe me. :)
Of course we are, I like to be sarcastic as well :)

PS. Where did I misspell music type "drum'n'base"? You are right, I think it should be drum'n'bass :)
Anyway, I wrote that message without much thinking, so please forgive me :)
At work, I am always in a rush for something ;)
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