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Temat: Political Correctness

Rafal Wolk:
You should never assume anything ;) when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Rafal. I like you. Will you be my friend? Please.

I gave you a plus :)warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 02:10
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Rafał Wołk

Rafał Wołk I'm not arrogant,
you're just offended
by my confidence.

Temat: Political Correctness

warren whitmore:
Rafal Wolk:
You should never assume anything ;) when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Rafal. I like you. Will you be my friend? Please.

I gave you a plus :)warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 02:10

Let's cuddle!
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Temat: Political Correctness

Rafal Wolk:
warren whitmore:
Rafal Wolk:
You should never assume anything ;) when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Rafal. I like you. Will you be my friend? Please.

I gave you a plus :)warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 02:10

Let's cuddle!
Wait! I need to go get popcorn!
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Rafał Wołk

Rafał Wołk I'm not arrogant,
you're just offended
by my confidence.

Temat: Political Correctness

Tatiana S.:
Rafal Wolk:
warren whitmore:
Rafal Wolk:
You should never assume anything ;) when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Rafal. I like you. Will you be my friend? Please.

I gave you a plus :)warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 02:10

Let's cuddle!
Wait! I need to go get popcorn!

You missed it, we even spooned!
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
jaki myślisz, że
jest"

Temat: Political Correctness

Andrzej Pieniazek:
Katarzyna M.:
What do you think, what percentage of these assumptions and theories was actually right?
Is this question for real, Andrzej?


Yes I meant it.. For sure nobody can give a number but I suspect that quite a lot of them turns out to be quite true..;)

talking about logic it's induction not deduction. don't like it.

and I'd like to quote something:

"if we say all the negative personal statements often enough, we will actually believe them and make them happen"

so someone, who thinks that Poles living in the UK are East Eeuropean beetroots and call every person from Pakistan/India Ciapaty, will meet only that kind of Poles.

the attitude it the most important factor.

therefore even if Warren's behaviour to me is nasty and arrogant I don't think that all white British men in their 40/50ies are the same, do I?Katarzyna M. edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 11:28
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Temat: Political Correctness

Katarzyna M.:
so someone, who thinks that Poles living in the UK are East Eeuropean beetroots and call every person from Pakistan/India Ciapaty, will meet only that kind of Poles.

I know a place where it's very easy to meet such people;)

Btw, do you now accept that statements that immigrant groups to the U.K. 'śmierdzi' are wrong, or do you still believe this is the freedom of expression that Poles have fought for for half a century?

therefore even if Warren's behaviour to me is nasty and arrogant I don't think that all white British men in their 40/50ies are the same, do I?

And the behaviour of yourself and those associated with you to obcokrajowcy and those associated with us? Is that not as bad if not worse?

Has anyone contacted your workplace to complain about something you've written?

Do I, or anyone associated with me, start campaigns against others, merely because they have 'plussed' replies, as you did with Michal?warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 14:18
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Political Correctness

Katarzyna M.:
... therefore even if Warren's behaviour to me is nasty and arrogant I don't think that all white British men in their 40/50ies are the same, do I?
I'd say don't trust yourself that much, we're not that complicated.

If I go and start behaving just like Warren did (I don't know what would that mean btw), you might seriously start thinking we, guys in their 40s, like to pull your leg, and stay cautious in your next experience.

Are you, honestly, can say you're writing now just like you'd want to, -say- 2 months ago?
It's not you, it's we, humans.
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
jaki myślisz, że
jest"

Temat: Political Correctness

ilter K.:
Katarzyna M.:
... therefore even if Warren's behaviour to me is nasty and arrogant I don't think that all white British men in their 40/50ies are the same, do I?
I'd say don't trust yourself that much, we're not that complicated.

If I go and start behaving just like Warren did (I don't know what would that mean btw), you might seriously start thinking we, guys in their 40s, like to pull your leg, and stay cautious in your next experience.
so this is what I'm talking about. no inductions, and no assumptions.
Are you, honestly, can say you're writing now just like you'd want to, -say- 2 months ago?
I was emotional because I felt sorry for pple not being here and the quotations from Londyn group etc. (I won't continue talking about it) however I realized that this is food for Warren's anger so I decided to stop feeding him. that's it.
It's not you, it's we, humans.
yes, and as humans we can always change our assumptions, our habits and our behaviour.Katarzyna M. edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 12:02
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Temat: Political Correctness

ilter K.:

It's not you, it's we, humans.

Are we humans or are we dancers?

I couldn't resist :P
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Political Correctness

Katarzyna M.:
I was emotional because I felt sorry for pple not being here and the quotations from Londyn group etc. (I won't continue talking about it) however I realized that this is food for Warren's anger so I decided to stop feeding him. that's it.
That exactly sounds like a personal assumption to me.
You might perceive it that way, but it didn't sound more than a pull to me.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 13:28
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
jaki myślisz, że
jest"

Temat: Political Correctness

ok,,Ilter, of course. And as you told me we're just humans I tell you what I've said to you in my very last post. As humans we always can change our assumpions.
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
jaki myślisz, że
jest"

Temat: Political Correctness

ilter K.:
Katarzyna M.:
I was emotional because I felt sorry for pple not being
That exactly sounds like a personal assumption to me.
You might perceive it that way, but it didn't sound more than a pull to me.

what I realized is that now we should define "assumption" hihi :-P

I have I great example of assumption and it says to me what assumptions may be or may be not.

you walk down the street and you meet a nice lady crying. as you are a sensitive gentleman you'd like to know what happened. you ask the lady and she tells you her partner had left her. "what a %&$**$%^ he is" you think. however you don't realize that her partner might be female :-)Katarzyna M. edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 14:46
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Political Correctness

I thought the word "assumption" is clear enough and doesn't need an additional definition.

In your previous post, you assumed that Warren was "angry" (having the anger).
Who told you that it was true? (Are you sure it was your intended use of words?)

This is what I tried to mean.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 31.08.09 o godzinie 14:56
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Political Correctness

I think I have to get on my high horse and explain what you, Andrzej and Warren, did not see or didn't want to see in my earlier posts:

I was solely talking about a phenomena amongst Turks, or to be more precise, amongst German born Turkish youngsters. I never mentioned or ment to talk about the behavior of a majority of Turks.

To call it daft while I was referring to common psychological knowledge and understanding or to deny the existence of the phenomena by simply saying: "I never saw something like that" is pretty stupid. Just because you haven't experienced something that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sophism.

I mentioned on a different occasion how the Turks influence the German society in a good way. The artists, politicians, actors, writers, etc.
But those problems as shown in the by me mentioned movies like 'Knallhart' or 'Gegen die Wand' will not go away by using PC.

It is illegal in Germany to marry your underage daughter to a fifty year old uncle in Turkey. Honor-killings are illegal. Gang building, drug selling, etc. are illegal.
You could call these things opportunities or challenges for a mixed society. Or not, depending on your standpoint or approach.

Nonetheless is somebody who steals a thief. Somebody who betrays a crook and somebody who kills a murderer. No matter what colour of skin he or she has and no matter what passport.

Let's not mince words, there is no assumption on my part. My friend, who was a trade school teacher, had classes with 50% Turks. He told me some stories where the hairs of your back will stand up. Not to mention my father and his business. Every time, fi, when my brother is on a certain protectino duty, a young Turk comes and threatens him to kill him. Police can't do anything, since there are no witnesses and it happens on public ground. Then I had my own experience, one being in my childhood, when the hole small town gathered to see some hundred Turks and Germans facing each other, armed with clubs, knifes, chains, etc. To figure the Turk-German thing out. Or seeing Police with sub-machine guns patrolling in Kreuzberg. Or all the news, newspaper articles, movies, talk shows, ministry conferences. They all are in the ballpark surrounding the phenomena and trying to sole it. But those groups of youngsters are tight. They don't like strangers.
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Temat: Political Correctness

I don't doubt for one moment that there are Turks in Germany who behave in a stupid or unacceptable manner.

I don't doubt that your friend had unpleasant experiences with classes of Turkish youth, but neither do I doubt that others have also had equally unpleasant experiences with classes of German youth.

I just believe you have a tendency to exaggerate and over-generalise which I find irritating.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.09.09 o godzinie 12:58
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Political Correctness

I sure use exaggeration as a figure of speech. I sure do generalize.
But nonetheless I don't see where I should have done it here? I mentioned from the very beginning that I was talking about a certain aspect of Turks in Germany, not all of them. Hence I don't see an exaggeration there. And since I try sticking to facts, at least the ones available to me, I don't see a generalization either. Not this time :P

PS: Nice to see that I posses just slightly enough power to irritate you, as much as you are quite an irritater yourself.Bernd Schreckenberg edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.09.09 o godzinie 19:19
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Temat: Political Correctness

OK, so what's the bottom line about Turks in Germany after all these posts? Do they have to dumb down their German? ;)
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Political Correctness

Bottom line:
- the first generation of Turks and other 'foreign- or guest-workers' (Fremdarbeiter or Gastarbeiter) is not (and was not attempted to) integrated
- the 2nd generation shows little influences, self-integration and participation in the German society
- the 3rd generation (with parts of the 2nd) is the first to benefit from a law of integration. Nonetheless it seems that problems are now arising which haven't so far or not in this magnitude. It's about crime, drugs, building of mosques, learning or German language, secularity, education. They are suddenly in focus, they are forced, they feel threatened.

The main friction, as I mentioned earlier, comes hereby from being torn between the very traditional, honor-ridden Turkish believes of the parents and the decadent life-style of a liberal nation.
No wonder they go bonkers.

Advantage though is that we have not as many foreigners in percentage as Britain or France. So, it's easier to deal with it. The means for dealing with it as well as the will are lacking often enthusiasm, understanding and strength.
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Rafał Wołk

Rafał Wołk I'm not arrogant,
you're just offended
by my confidence.

Temat: Political Correctness

This is just too funny


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