Temat: Polish/English relationships:

Continuation of the discussion on five from Friday:

If you are or have been in such a relationship what do/did you find easy and or difficult?

Or alternatively, if you have had a relationship with an American, or any other nationality.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 22.04.08 o godzinie 08:02

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

Things to think about:

What did you argue about?

What didn't you 'get' about the 'other'?

What irritated you/him/her?

Is it better to have a relationship with someone of the same culture?

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

I have been in an English/Polish relationship for nearly a year.
I am a very open minded person and did not really think that there were any problems regarding our r'ship.
The problem was on the other side.
My girlfriend (5 years younger than me) could not bear the fact that she could not understand when I had to speak to my friends in Polish (due to their lack of English lingua skills).
All the other aspects were personal, and I do not reckon they were based on cultural differences.

I think when there are no extreme differences, i.e. religious views etc. there should not be a problem in such relationships.
It is even better (more challenging) to date a person that has a different cultural roots, unless there is a big problem in communication and misunderstandings.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

If both sides were honest from the beginning, I don't think the differences in cultural roots or religious views could cause a trouble.

If the language is not an issue, the problem between couples comes from simply having 2 different DNAs.
Considering women and men having 2 different chromosomes, it adds up and makes the case even worse. :)
2 individuals means 2 different individuals, there's no way to make it 1, thats tough enough, me thinks.

So, at that point; "sacrifice" and "tolerance" are 2 important words (other than "love" and/or "attraction").
If you can't stand it, that means you are not meant for eachother.

Although I haven't had an American/Polish or Polish/English relationship, these are my experiences, sorry. hehe

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

I don't knw anything about personally, but how about a Polish/Turkish one, for example.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

Just like the things I've wrote Warren.

No cultural/religious problems. Having different personalities is enough.

A lot of thinking and questioning needed before taking serious steps. If one really wants it to be a long-lasting relationship.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

I think that if both parts are equally attracted to each other, they see past cultural differences and see the actual person. It goes hand in hand with issues such as tolerance.
Relationships (after the initial infatuation) are usually based around each other’s minds.

What we find attractive in our partners (I am talking about long term partners) is usually what sort of mental stimulant they are able to provide us with.
I’ve had a fling at one point with someone as dense as a piece of led, it lasted 9 days if I remember correctly but it could have been shorter. (My excuse – it was a rebound… no really).

I don’t think that there is much difference between someone from US vs. Poland, at least not at this point in time. Kari (my wife) asked me recently what would be the “shocker” when we arrive. For the life of me, I could not think of one thing that would be so out of the ordinary that it would shock her. I mentioned Moher’s Beret army, the firm grasp that the church still holds over decision making (but that’s nothing new for an American)… I think lack of English speaking would have to be the main thing… other than that it’s really hard to pinpoint.

What makes up each and every one of us is the unique to us series of events that has played major parts in our lives. I think culture in which we are brought up plays a significant role in the development of our “rules of engagement and attraction” but it’s those events that take place through out our lives that chisel it down for us. Someone can be so devoted to their culture (whatever it may be) that they fail to see the beauty of a person from another, someone else could be just as devoted but maybe have had more opportunities to interact with people from other cultures and may be more keen on shagging a freak ;)Rafal Wolk edytował(a) ten post dnia 22.04.08 o godzinie 14:14

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It's about the individuals only. Sometimes people are very locked into stereotypes, but most people rise above them.

Where there's a culture difference this can either be a problem or a blessing!

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

I think its far more complicated than that.

For example, a minor change in intonation turns a polite request into an order.

And very often the 'other' can 'get' what you say but not your actual intention.

That's why people are often only truly comfortable within their own cultural group, as they can understand the subtle as well as the obvious.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 22.04.08 o godzinie 14:13

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

warren whitmore:
I think its far more complicated than that.

For example, a minor change in intonation turns a polite request into an order.

And very often the 'other' can 'get' what you say but not your actual intention.

That's why people are often only truly comfortable within their own cultural group, as they can understand the subtle as well as the obvious.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 22.04.08 o godzinie 14:13

It doesn't take long to get accustomed to those nuances. If we are aiming for the long haul, we are more “into” learning about those differences so the assimilation process doesn’t take nearly as long and is a lot less painful.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

warren whitmore:
I think its far more complicated than that.

For example, a minor change in intonation turns a polite request into an order.

And very often the 'other' can 'get' what you say but not your actual intention.

I've heard that before... maybe that's why I wouln't consider going out with someone whose mother tongue I barely know. Apart from that, for me it was just the things theat would equally annoy me in a Pole.
The trouble is, my most successful relationship was with an American, but that doesn't prove anything since he was a guy I bumped into in the street and not someone I'd known for some time before going out with them.

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Warren - you are absolutely right, this is the kind of problems I was encountering, I said something with good intention and it was misinterpreted.
But on the other hand, when there is love, nothing can stop such relationship. Just talk about everything, this is the only solution, and be open!

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

To Rafal:

I would disagree.

This kind of thing takes years.

Often working out would others mean can be more difficult than understanding what they say.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 22.04.08 o godzinie 14:21

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

Tatiana S.:

warren whitmore:
I think its far more complicated than that.

For example, a minor change in intonation turns a polite request into an order.

And very often the 'other' can 'get' what you say but not your actual intention.

I've heard that before... maybe that's why I wouln't consider going out with someone whose mother tongue I barely know.

I would disagree again:

Unfortunately, someone like yourself with near perfect English can have more difficulties than someone with very poor English.

What I mean is this. If someone with poor English makes a terrible faux pas, it is simply assumed that they don't understand.
That is why Borat gets away with many things a native speaker of English wouldn't.

Unfortunately, if someone with apparently perfect English says 'the wrong thing', it will generally be assumed that they meant what they said.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

warren whitmore:
To Rafal:

I would disagree.

This kind of thing takes years.

Often working out would others mean can be more
difficult than understanding what they say.

I think it’s actually more of an issue that touches up on female vs. male mentality than the culture itself. I don’t think you’d see as many interracial or intercultural couples around if that was the case. I can’t see myself trying to stay with someone for years and constantly fight over being misunderstood.
It’s sort of like the Pavlov’s test, we get used to certain variations rather quickly.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

warren whitmore:

Unfortunately, someone like yourself with near perfect English can have more difficulties than someone with very poor English.

I like to joke around, and it would near kill me if I went out with a guy from, say, Germany, and wouldn't be able to crack a joke because my knowledge of German is somewhat limited.

Hard to say whther what you mentioned could be a problem as I don't have much experience in this matter - one guy isn't clearly enough for solid evidence ;) but I'm sure you guys (Warren, Steves, and Keith) must have had a few Polish girlfriends - so which is it: do you prefer a Polish woman who can speak English a little - or one who can easily share her thoughts, fears, troubles, and dreams with you in English? (maybe I should simply dumb down my English next time I meet an English-speaking guy...)

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Actually, Tatiana, I married the only foreign girlfriend I ever had. When we met on an exchange year in Germany, I spoke no Polish, and she hid the fact that she could speak English from me, to be able to practice her German. The fact that my German was woeful, yet we still were living together about a month after meeting, means that you can joke with even a few words of the foreign language. As Mick Jagger once said, it's the singer, not the song :-)

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

but I'm sure you guys (Warren, Steves, and Keith) must have had a few Polish girlfriends - so which is it: do you prefer a Polish woman who can speak English a little - or one who can easily share her thoughts, fears, troubles, and dreams with you in English?

Why are you sure? ;)

I've only had one who didn't speak really good English. With her I speak English (we're still friends) and she speaks Polish. Things seem to work... though you don't always know for sure that you or him/her really does understand specific things that are being said until proof of a misunderstanding crops up.

In the case of Polish (not French as I am/was more advanced) I'm more concerned about being able to express myself in English when I have something delicate to express. If my girlfriend can understand what I say, even if she couldn't articulate it herself in English, then for me it is fine. My Polish generally allows me to reciprocate.

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

Steven H.:

but I'm sure you guys (Warren, Steves, and Keith) must have had a few Polish girlfriends - so which is it: do you prefer a Polish woman who can speak English a little - or one who can easily share her thoughts, fears, troubles, and dreams with you in English?

Why are you sure? ;)

There's four of you ;)

Anyway, this just proves language can be no real problem when it comes to forming a relationship with someone from another country. What I do appreciate is the fact that people actually go a step further and learn the language of their partners, as was in my case - he did his best to learn a bit of Polish even though he didn't have to. I believe you need to know something about the other person's background to have a lasting relationship, apart from love, friendship etc.
If I'm not making myself clear it's because I've been translating trade agreements for hours now and can only think of technical acceptance reports and CCTV systems...

Temat: Polish/English relationships:

warren whitmore:
For example, a minor change in intonation turns a polite request > into an order.
And very often the 'other' can 'get' what you say but not your
actual intention.

Ok, after reading this, I felt like I'm oblidged to give you guys some insight... :P :)
I tried to drop some colorful bits here and there to not bore you to death - I hope you all gonna survive.

I come from a country which holds a weird kind of diversity in itself - when it comes to the cultures. There is no other country similar, I can bet on that. It is so cosmopolitan, in order to fit the following into a shorter-than-a-graduation-thesis-length-writing, you need to be me. (and THATs what I call "arrogance")
In order to use the term: "an average Turk", you need to be either an ignorant idiot, or a guy with a serious education and a strange kind of life experience.
Lets assume for now, I am the latter.

An average Turkish guy, dissipates more heat than an average European guy when he hears: "Your girl (or wife) is beautiful", from another guy (with no family ties whatsoever).
(I have heard it during my 1st marriage from an American dude, but my ex-wife had enough time to explain what it means before I jumped on his throat. Naah, kidding about the "throat" part).
Our average guy is little bit overprotective and jealous sometimes -when the subject is "his girl".
If someone has parked in front of his garage, he can let loose his swaggering attitude, if the other driver doesn't seem to care.

So, the picture is kind of clear I guess... this guy is a regular mediterranean guy similar to Latinos of US. They are simple with their needs and rather straight-forward if they are under pressure. Islam brings a little bit of conservative flavor to it - thats all.

This guy is so different than a European pale skin girls -naturally. No doubt about that. (And has more body hair)
But the thing is, as soon as you get close to this guy, his nature is apparent. Because:
1- We are talking about a male - an average male can't hide serious emotions for too long
2- We are talking about a guy who prefers his woman in a certain way, behaviour, attitude, sometimes even in clothing.
After a lovely flirting, his nature will start to be on the surface - visible, hearable, smellable.

(...and here comes "the advice for travelling single women" who might fall in love with an uncivilised Turkish guy :)
(I am sure you are not one of those, but be warned)
Beware of construction site workers close to the holiday resorts, they might be looking for a way to export themselves into a "wealthy" country that they have created in their own imagination.

If this (average) guy is little bit educated, and lived in a city (with a population of 1 million or bigger), you'll soon get what is this guy about in 2-3 months (He has been living on this Earth at the end, not on a remote Pacific Island. And probably he has used or has a friend who is using an iPhone before you have seen it).

As long as you don't stress this guy to be a member of the catholic or any other christian belief/church, he won't bug you with your belief. But if you're unsure, ask about his opinion - thats pretty simple.

Although it looked like a guide, I had to mention about these, before passing to THE subject.

If couples follow the regular path (flirting, getting to know eachother, having fun together, talking about life and the thoughts about future), there won't be any kind of bad surprise similar to the one in the movie "Not Without My Daughter".
(I can guess the sense of insecurity when you face the "rather unknown". That psycho bastard (in the movie) was too devilish and too much tied to stupid religious thoughts - so he was almost unreal. If you have seen the film, you know what I mean).

Yes, a Turkish dude might say: "Err, that low-cut is cut too low" when a European lady wears a sexy dress. Yes, his eyebrows might be vigorously moving when he sees his girl getting off of a car of a male colleague of hers... but would it be good reason to end a relationship?
(Yes it could, if he seems unchanged when you explain your "believable" reasons and if he repeats the same sh*t all the time and causes fights).

Thats how far a cultural difference might go.
At the end, if he wouldn't like to be with you, he wouldn't be with you. And true emotions -I believe- can not stay as a secret for long. How long... I say 2-3 months, thats it.

About using the "same language"...
Well, if you 2 are able to laugh at the same joke, thats enough for the most. What will you talk about, anyway - living life forms at Mariana Trench?
"People needs somebody to talk to, you know... about serious things sometimes, about things which are not shallow", women say. When it has a complaining tone to it, they rather mean "talking to another women" - not to a man. heheh
(Damn, if I am right and say it loud, thats not "right" until a female friend prooves that it is right).

"We have a communication problem" is often heard before and after the serious talks between couples. But it has nothing to do with the language they speak, the culture palette they have... it has something to do with having different sex.
(I've heard and used this "Houston, we have a problem" speech while beeing married to an American, while I've been engaged to 1 Turkish girl, while been dating with about 5 others and been married to 1 Polish lady).

Do these things familiar to you? Does it make any sense to you, according to your experiences?
We all are very similar to eachother (at least the ones who saw some sort of civilisation) and we learn the things pretty fast.
If you try to understand the other side a little bit more than everybody does (which you guys exhibit to have as a feature), "cultural differences" will be a kindergarten subject to you. But for the others, it is not a big deal too.

About "a minor change in intonation"...
Yes, intonation differences will always be there (Don't be crazy, I'm Turkish, I kiss you). But compared to the typical differences between men and women, it is rather a natural nuance that a human can learn and adapt him/herself with the time. What is the measure of this "time"? I say "As soon as the 2nd or the 3rd argument/fight". hehe.

Fights are the best occasions to learn things about eachother. There we see the true emotions, or our ways to cope with them.
Luckily wake up calls come usually early - in my experience.ilter Kalkanci edytował(a) ten post dnia 23.04.08 o godzinie 08:52