Temat: Nativeness

warren whitmore:

Paweł Gąsior:

Rafał D.:
Do you agree that there is no possibility to achieve ability
in foreign language at the same level natives have?

No way dude ;) Surely u can master a language on a level quite higher than natives. Being a native doesn't make any1 an oracle in the linguistic stuff. And if u try hard, 1 day u r simply better than most of 'em.

Doesn't usually happen though, does it.

Yeah, surely i must admit it and say it's rather out of reach of a standard guy who uses a foreign language simply as a tool. But still i'm quite firm that if 1 is a professional aimed on mastering 'nativness' they're able to do it.
Of course they must learn lots about customs and culture, i don't argue with that.
And about short reactions, screams, exclamation, well - practice makes a master. Ppl who want to be like natives shoul practise their behaviour like actors. If ones really talented in fact won't find problem with it.
I also know ppl who after being for a long time in States tend to 'deform' Polish syntax in a way it sounds a bit English - so due to practice ur brain's getting shaped somehow.
And - haha - my friend once told that she had learned English when she had started dreaming in English - what do u think bout it?Paweł Gąsior edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.08.09 o godzinie 11:13

Temat: Nativeness

Know what Paweł? I trust more Rafał on this matter ;)Rafał D. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.08.09 o godzinie 20:26

Temat: Nativeness

Rafał D.:

Well, here I can't agree, that is missing the point. You compare the results. You can produce the same results by your ways, but you have no possibility to get sure that your way is same as the native guy. And again, this is the point generally, you observe both of you from the outside but only yourself from the inside. There is no possibility to "explain" what are the ways that lead to what comes out.

I completely missed this one for some reason, I apologize. Looking at yourself from the inside is a very good way of describing the feeling.
Once you stop doing that, and your responses are automatic - meaning you don't have to reanalyze your original utterance while at the same time following the flow of the conversation at hand, possibly adding on and improving its flow, changing its direction whenever it makes sense to do so; that's when you know that you're pretty much there.
For example, I think slang is a great measure of your lingual success. Now, I'm not talking Ebonics here; we all use slang in spoken language and it's quite easy to point out those who try instead of just do.
Myself for example - I couldn't use the new modern Polish slang and sound natural if my life depended on it. Why? It was pretty different when I'd left and for me to say that something is "wyczesane"... it's just plain strange.

You can easily test yourself by simply starting a convo with a stranger in a random setting. Most of your friends either don't notice or simply ignore your mistakes, because they know "your deal". Strangers on the other hand will most likely be more inquisitive and questions like: "what's the accent?" tend to come up.

In the US it's called "talking shit, shooting the breeze, talking smack" etc etc... if you can sit in a room full of people and not offend anyone but at the same time throw some serious off color jokes around or better yet direct them at some of the participants... I think that could be a good point of reference.Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 06.08.09 o godzinie 21:15