Temat: Legalising drugs:

No but I could do you a few grams of slug, if you're interested.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Legalize shrubs!

Temat: Legalising drugs:

ilter K.:

Ilter the war on drugs has been lost… it was actually lost before it even started. You can not possibly win this war. War on drugs is just about as abstract of a term as the war on terror… and they are both actually intertwined. Right now, according to the latest UN study Afghanistan is responsible for over 90% of all the Opium in the world. They are now producing over 30% more than the actual demand!!!

The coalition forces along with the Afghani police are currently working on the “clean up” by destroying crops… so what is happening? Afghani people would rather ask the Taliban for help with protection of their poppy plants and pay them absorbent amounts of money for it thus fueling the war on terror while the Taliban is more than happy to provide this protection because they love the idea of this poison being sold to the western world. YOU CAN NOT WIN THIS WAY!

Every day you can open a news paper and read about the overwhelming violence that takes place in every part of our planet due to cartel and gang wars.
This is a pretty good article:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4012

Addicts are just but a tip of this iceberg, they are not the main cause for concern however with the money saved from legalization of narcotics we could build treatment facilities where these people could get assistance.

Norway – highest standards of living, yet streets of Oslo are littered with Heroin addicts, over 7000 of them! You can’t tell me that Norwegian are not well aware and educated in this manner.

The AIDS pandemic thrives on the war on drugs, corruption, mass murders, kidnappings, gang wars, wars and many other negative aspects of this war are hardly ever discussed. It always comes down to – “would you like your kid to…” and I will answer honestly – kids are going to do drugs be it legal or illegal no matter what… what we can do, is make this planet safer and more livable by putting our funds where they are needed and not into bottomless wells where they simply are wasted.

There is a city close to where I live – Newark… it is a ran down city with a huge drug problem, for the longest time it was the car theft capital of the world but there is a part of that city that only its citizens are aware of and nobody else talks about. As soon as you get off the main highway that goes through it connecting south and north Jersey you enter a scene from a nightmare. Burned down buildings, rows of them, streets littered with trash, unmarked and unnamed, police car is something that you won’t see there often, if ever, empty 50 gallon oil drums filled with garbage light up the streets at night and drug dealers and junkies stand around them to keep warm. As soon as you stop at a red light or a stop sign, from every nook and cranny, every dark hallway out come the kids… KIDS Ilter… 6, 7 , 8 maybe 9 years old with hands full of cocaine clips, heroin bundles and weed bags and haggle you! “Nah man don’ be buyin shit from that nigga I gots the biggest bags on the block man!” “Fuck that lil punk, check my shit out, this is the shit mang, I’ll get ya 3 fo fitty yo!” Pockets full of drugs and butts of guns sticking out of their pants…
Rain or shine, sunshine or snow these kids are out there… why? Because if they get arrested, their parents pick them up from the station … just to put them back on the street the very same day… that’s the war on drugs. Schools in the US run so many drug education programs; they have tons of after school programs as well… but why would you want to go to school, when being a 8 year old, you are making more money than the overwhelming majority of people in this country after years of schools and ivy league education.
The only way to get rid of this tragedy is by cutting off demand… but since demand will never cease the only way to fix it, is by legalizing.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Dave Andrew:



No but I could do you a few grams of slug, if you're interested.

I prefer the south american toads...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Andrzej Dobrucki:
Legalize shrubs!

But they dont rhyme! :-)

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Dave Andrew:

Andrzej Dobrucki:
Legalize shrubs!

But they dont rhyme! :-)

I'm sure Dave, you don't want to exclude shrubs from decriminalizing.
How would you feel being a shrub yourself? Why liberate slugs and not liberate shrubs? And your notion about rhymes is so much outdated mate!

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Andrzej Dobrucki:

>> I'm sure Dave, you don't want to exclude shrubs from

decriminalizing.
How would you feel being a shrub yourself? Why liberate slugs and not liberate shrubs? And your notion about rhymes is so much outdated mate!

OK OK - you win! Count me in for the shrub campaign.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Availability is a big problem.

Perhaps a closer look at one of those drugs will make anyone think twice about rationality of legalising any of this shit.
Crystal meth - killing millions of kids around the world and it's spreading so fast it's now considered an epidemic. Costs $20 for a nice supply. It's taken by smoking it and it creates a superhuman feeling as it alters the levels of adrenaline in the brain. These levels are ten times higher than a brain is able to withstand for longer periods. The addiction here is to the adrenaline effect, not the smoking experience. It devastates the entire organism faster than heroin or anything else. Initially it takes 3-4 days for the adrenaline levels to drop to a point where you start feeling like shit again. That's why kids get into it as a 'weekend drug'. The effect is a cocky, risky and sometimes violent behavior and that 'you can do anything' feeling. When the depression sets in after the adrenaline drop, it's unbearable verging on suicidal. Takes two-three weeks and you're hooked, steadily increasing the frequency to daily consumption.
Advanced users of crystal meth scratch constantly and often tear their veins out, as they feel a sensation of having insects crawling under skin. Their faces are covered with scabs, and the aging process is accelerated. It is extremely hard to stop hence very few succeeded. Most will end up with some kind of brain disability, or worse .. die.
Sending a message that drugs are ok by legalising them is like opening suicide booths... here you go, knock yourself out .. if you want.

What's next ? trading it on stock exchange ?

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Aggie Michalska:
Availability is a big problem.

Perhaps a closer look at one of those drugs will make anyone think twice about rationality of legalising any of this shit.
Crystal meth - killing millions of kids around the world and it's spreading so fast it's now considered an epidemic. Costs $20 for a nice supply. It's taken by smoking it and it creates a superhuman feeling as it alters the levels of adrenaline in the brain. These levels are ten times higher than a brain is able to withstand for longer periods. The addiction here is to the adrenaline effect, not the smoking experience. It devastates the entire organism faster than heroin or anything else. Initially it takes 3-4 days for the adrenaline levels to drop to a point where you start feeling like shit again. That's why kids get into it as a 'weekend drug'. The effect is a cocky, risky and sometimes violent behavior and that 'you can do anything' feeling. When the depression sets in after the adrenaline drop, it's unbearable verging on suicidal. Takes two-three weeks and you're hooked, steadily increasing the frequency to daily consumption.
Advanced users of crystal meth scratch constantly and often tear their veins out, as they feel a sensation of having insects crawling under skin. Their faces are covered with scabs, and the aging process is accelerated. It is extremely hard to stop hence very few succeeded. Most will end up with some kind of brain disability, or worse .. die.
Sending a message that drugs are ok by legalising them is like opening suicide booths... here you go, knock yourself out .. if you want.

What's next ? trading it on stock exchange ?

So instead, you’d rather lock all the drug addicts in prisons and keep dumping trillions of dollars into a war that is impossible to win by also supplying gangs and cartels around the world with funds to kill millions of people who don’t even have anything to do with the drug itself? I’m sorry but that’s retarded! This war on drugs has been killing far more people and destroying more lives than the actual drugs.
Speed/Glass/Crystal/Crank whatever you want to call it, it’s made with household items… for $20 you can get a nice quantity of it? I’d do some fact checking, in NYC a gram of speed goes for almost $200 so I’m not sure where do you get your numbers from. It is cheap in places like California and Midwest in the states where it is mass produced. It is a plague but it’s hardly news and the reason why it’s so dangerous is because ANYONE can make it so the quality of it varies depending on the combination of chemicals that are being used and quantity used. It goes the same for any and every drug. You can get ecstasy pills that are pure MDMA and you can get pills that are full of heroin depending on who makes it… even weed, you can get your hands on some grade As but at the same time majority of kids in poor neighborhoods are buying dirt Mexican weed sprayed with a cockroach spray for that “extra kick”.
Now I’ve already talked about all the other aspects of keeping them illegal. We are not saying here that drugs are good, they are bad, just like alcohol is bad, just like tobacco is bad and both of those kill millions more than all the other drugs combined… yet they are 100% legal and available and there is not an international alcohol or tobacco cartel killing people left and right over turf rights. You don’t see 8 year old kids with guns in the streets trying to sell you cigarettes or booze…. However, alcohol prohibition was directly responsible for Al Capone for example and the explosion of organized crime world wide.
When it comes to drugs, you need to have a cool head and not play emotions… drug addicts are only a small part of it and it is much cheaper to put someone through rehab then to keep them in prison. Always keep in mind the number $600 per second which the US gov’t is spending on the war on drugs.
Drugs are bad… yes, but they are worst if kept illegal. Drugs kill people… but people kill over drugs far more because they are illegal.Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 17:19

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Some cold statistics

The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

State and local governments spent at least another 30 billion.

Source: National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University: "Shoveling Up: The Impact of Substance Abuse on State Budgets," January, 2001.

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People Arrested for Drug Law Offenses this Year

Arrests for drug law violations in 2008 are expected to exceed the 1,889,810 arrests of 2006. Law enforcement made more arrests for drug law violations in 2006 (13.1 percent of the total number of arrests) than for any other offense.

Someone is arrested for violating a drug law every 17 seconds.

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

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People Arrested for Cannabis Law Offenses this Year

Police arrested an estimated 829,625 persons for cannabis violations in 2006, the highest annual total ever recorded in the United States, according to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Of those charged with cannabis violations, approximately 89 percent, 738,915 Americans were charged with possession only. An American is now arrested for violating cannabis laws every 38 seconds.

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

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People Incarcerated for Drug Law Offenses this Year

Since December 31, 1995, the U.S. prison population has grown an average of 43,266 inmates per year. About 25 per cent are sentenced for drug law violations.

Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Preventable HIV Infections this Year

Nearly 4,000 new HIV infections can be prevented before the year 2009 if the federal ban on needle exchange funding is lifted this year.

About 10 new cases could be prevented every day.

Source: Center for AIDS Prevention Studies, University of California, San Francisco

Now let's compare it to educational spending:

Public Schools Spent $9,138 Per Student in 2006
School districts in the United States spent an average of $9,138 per student in fiscal year 2006, an increase of $437 from 2005, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released today.

This means that the US gov't alone spends more money in 15 seconds on this war on drugs, then Public schools spend on a student in one year.

15.9 million kids in college... an average Private four year college cost - $24,143 = every 42 seconds of the war on drugs we could send a kid to college for FREE!!! Take them off the street and provide them with proper education!

Now healthcare -

In 2007, employer health insurance premiums increased by 6.1 percent - two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,100. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,400.2

So 20 seconds of the war on drugs is equal to a free healthcare plan for an entire family.

1 full year of methadone maintenance treatment is approximately $4,700 per patient, whereas 1 full year of imprisonment costs approximately $18,400 per person.

So every 7 seconds of the drug war, we could put a drug addictthrough a rehab!

This is the war on drugs that you apparently didn't take into consideration.Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 17:20

Temat: Legalising drugs:

1 year = 31 556 926 seconds

The estimated population of the United States is 305,207,395
so each citizen's share of this debt is $35,018.84.

Every 58 seconds, we could pay off the debt of every single US citizen...

Do you see how absolutely absurd this war is?

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Rafal W.:

Aggie Michalska:
Availability is a big problem.

What's next ? trading it on stock exchange ?

So instead, you’d rather lock all the drug addicts in prisons and keep dumping trillions of dollars into a war that is impossible to win by also supplying gangs and cartels around the world with funds to kill millions of people who don’t even have anything to do with the drug itself? I’m sorry but that’s retarded! This war on drugs has been killing far more people and destroying more lives than the actual drugs.
Speed/Glass/Crystal/Crank whatever you want to call it, it’s made with household items… for $20 you can get a nice quantity of it? I’d do some fact checking, in NYC a gram of speed goes for almost $200 so I’m not sure where do you get your numbers from. It is cheap in places like California and Midwest in the states where it is mass produced. It is a plague but it’s hardly news and the reason why it’s so dangerous is because ANYONE can make it so the quality of it varies depending on the combination of chemicals that are being used and quantity used. It goes the same for any and every drug. You can get ecstasy pills that are pure MDMA and you can get pills that are full of heroin depending on who makes it… even weed, you can get your hands on some grade As but at the same time majority of kids in poor neighborhoods are buying dirt Mexican weed sprayed with a cockroach spray for that “extra kick”.
Now I’ve already talked about all the other aspects of keeping them illegal. We are not saying here that drugs are good, they are bad, just like alcohol is bad, just like tobacco is bad and both of those kill millions more than all the other drugs combined… yet they are 100% legal and available and there is not an international alcohol or tobacco cartel killing people left and right over turf rights. You don’t see 8 year old kids with guns in the streets trying to sell you cigarettes or booze…. However, alcohol prohibition was directly responsible for Al Capone for example and the explosion of organized crime world wide.
When it comes to drugs, you need to have a cool head and not play emotions… drug addicts are only a small part of it and it is much cheaper to put someone through rehab then to keep them in prison. Always keep in mind the number $600 per second which the US gov’t is spending on the war on drugs.
Drugs are bad… yes, but they are worst if kept illegal. Drugs kill people… but people kill over drugs far more because they are illegal.Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 17:19

Settle down mate, you're obviously one pissed off tax payer but who isn't ? If its not drugs, then it's the guns, the biopiracy, patenting living things or the infamous occupation of Iraq...
I think you missed the point. The issue is not whether or not to put drug addicts in prison but to CUT their supply...not to hand them the weapon to hang themselves. This is a psychological thing, not an economical one. I don't care how you fight drug cartels and mafia in your country and how much it costs. That's a problem for your lawmakers and administration which is as corrupt as any other. I care however about whether my children will have lethal drugs available to them or not.

By the way - the upkeep of one fighter jet in Iraq costs $1 million a day and how retarded it this ?

Legal drugs, flexible gun laws and racial conflicts is a deadly combination.

And I'm not sure where you get your drugs mate and what is the going price around your parts, but in Sydney it costs $20-$25 for a dose on average.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Aggie, why don't you introduce yourself here?

You're a new entry apparently, or maybe you simply got tired of lurking?

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Definitely not tired of quoting huge pieces of text.... ;)

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Some introductory words would be welcome, yes.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Aggie Michalska:

Settle down mate, you're obviously one pissed off tax payer but who isn't ? If its not drugs, then it's the guns, the biopiracy, patenting living things or the infamous occupation of Iraq...
I think you missed the point. The issue is not whether or not to put drug addicts in prison but to CUT their supply...

No, that's not the issue, because drugs are based on supply and demand - as long as there is a demand there will always be someone supplying it. Drugs have been here since the dawn of our times and they always will be… mainly because we can find majority of them in nature, how are you going to get rid of that? Are you going to destroy all poppy and cannabis plants? That’s equivalent to chairman Mao’s order to kill of all the crop eating sparrows.

not to hand them the weapon to hang themselves. This is a psychological thing, not an economical one.

It is economics! Drug abuse and demographics are connected by default.

Do you think kids would be selling drugs if they were available at a lower price and at a store? If they were controlled and taxed? No they would not, just like they don’t sell cigarettes or alcohol.

I don't care how you fight drug cartels and mafia in your country and how much it costs.

War on Drugs is an international program and it does involve your country as well.

That's a problem for your lawmakers and administration which is as corrupt as any other. I care however about whether my children will have lethal drugs available to them or not.

Well, I have two kids... and I know that one day someone will offer them drugs while I’m not around. I can educate them about all the effects that drugs have on people all I want… but in the end it will come down to their own decision and choice. We all know that kids do silly things sometimes and not always follow logic… with that said – would you rather have them get something made in some dirty biker’s basement with unknown chemicals and absolutely no knowledge of what exactly it is that they are ingesting?

Yes, I understand that this is a pretty grim way of looking at things, but this is the harsh reality of the world that we are living in and if you think that “your kids are too smart, too good or two well informed” to do such things… well… I can only hope that you know what to do when you do find them high out of their minds flipping out because of some mushrooms or acid.

I’ve met so many different people who are openly doing drugs of all sorts and all say that it is a bad thing… but it is their choice, which is yet another thing that you are not considering – freedom of choice of each and every one of us to do whatever we want to ourselves. Are you now going to tell me what I can and can not do in my spare time?

By controlling the supply, just as it is done with alcohol and tobacco, we have a filtering system that allows us to control to a certain degree who can and who can not get their hands on these products. Granted, if kid really wants to, he/she will still be able to obtain whatever it is that they crave at the moment, just as they do now with alcohol… but again – we are not only filtering the quantity but also the quality. We can impose harsh penalties, maybe even prison terms for those who sell controlled substances to minors, take away license or whatever… THAT’s how you control the source… not by creating a tremendous international black market with enough capital to pay off any official.

When Pablo Escobar’s son was arrested in Colombia, Mr. Escobar walked into the court room and offered to pay off the entire Colombian national debt for his son freedom!!!

This is what I’m talking about, to say that cartels and gangs are not important but the drug addicts are, is like saying that we shouldn’t blame Exxon for the Exxon Valdez spill it was the fault of the animals for being at a wrong place and at a wrong time.

By the way - the upkeep of one fighter jet in Iraq costs $1 million a day and how retarded it this ?

That's extremely retarded.

And I'm not sure where you get your drugs mate and what is the going price around your parts, but in Sydney it costs $20-$25 for a dose on average.

I don't buy drugs... but I guess in Sydney $20 goes a long way. Not here, in NYC speed is extremely expensive. The speed epidemic started in the early 90's in the US and it only hit the news in the recent years when all of the sudden little spoiled rich brats started getting hooked on it... as it usually is. Heroin has been huge in the states for years... in the mid 90's heroin use nearly doubled... yet it wasn't until it hit the suburbs and the white neighborhoods that people started to actually pay attention to it.

I can tell you that drugs are not only easy to obtain... easy is an understatement here... they are in your face while you're in school, work place, clubs, bars, lounges and anywhere else you can think of... they are not going away and the only way to control them is by making them legal and taxing the shit out of them... just as we have done with alcohol and tobacco.

This is human nature and no matter what you do, you won't be able to change it.

here you go... Austrialian news

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,212...Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 19:22

Temat: Legalising drugs:

What's next ? trading it on stock exchange ?

I understand the mood of that question, but the funny thing is the answer is yes, we WOULD if we could in the money.

Legalizing classes of drugs, such as opiates, and big business profits cant coexist in the USA, however (we define "hard and "soft" by classes in a schedule. Class 1; Class 2; Class 3...).The cost/benefit cant balance here. Maybe people wouldn't steal TVs for "gettin' right," but I think the costs would shift away from crime, punishment, and all the other enforcements, toward health costs and the "Soilent Green" garbage trucks that would be needed to pick people up to take them places and run the places. We dont even want to pay for community mental health care facilities, for example.

Ever smoked opium? I have, in order to see it's effects. You would need "asylums" on every corner, whereas noone here would tolerate 80% tax on gross income for what it would cost to legalise those classes of drug.

I understand the mood of that question. I'm just sittin' in a "pub" and saying "pfft uh yeah...we WOULD, we kind of DO, but no mas because hey, money, money, money, which is ironic." So dont worry anyone. It cant be done here.Joj Y. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 21:12

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Rafal W.:

here you go... Austrialian news

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,212...Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 19:22

Well, the Australian Police is notoriously corrupt. Drug ring corrupt. Years ago we've imported an english dude down from UK to lead the police force - no local could be trusted - to clean up the force, and after a few years he resigned saying it can't be done. How's that for a warm feeling of public security.... we shoud've asked Arnie to come down - " I'll be back, give you sumting to laughf about"...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Aggie Michalska:

Rafal W.:

here you go... Austrialian news

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,212...Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 19:22

Well, the Australian Police is notoriously corrupt. Drug ring corrupt. Years ago we've imported an english dude down from UK to lead the police force - no local could be trusted - to clean up the force, and after a few years he resigned saying it can't be done. How's that for a warm feeling of public security.... we shoud've asked Arnie to come down - " I'll be back, give you sumting to laughf about"...

Fighting fire with fire... Illegal drugs corrupt... an average cop in NYC makes between $25k - $30 / year... you can't survive on that sort of salary... so what do you do?
Well, some I hire at my events to 1. keep other cops away, 2. keep the peace.. others prefer the other other way of earning the extra buck... such is life.

Temat: Legalising drugs:

- We're spending too much on the drug war, so let's free the drugs.

- Drug dealers, smugglers and "retail" sellers are terrorizing, crime is bad, so let's legalize the damn thing.

These thoughts do not justify. Mass consumption, Rafał. Massive effects, can't you see, dude? :)

Crime will always be there, whatever you do with the drugs. But once you loose the masses, Kansas is gone, bye-bye.

Anyhoo, I think we should agree on not agreeing and turn back to the main subject of the thread... who's up for a fake doc report when we move to Switzerland? :P