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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

Bernd, I was neither talking about "why"s like "why tobacco is free?" nor the impacts of smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol.
I should be mad to not take them into the consideration.

But the thing is, having a "hard" drug in your body is a little (!) different than having some percentage of alcohol in your blood. The roads that both things CAN lead to is no fun, but letting "hard" drugs being legal is not going to solve anything.

- There are so many accidents because of alcohol.
- Ok, so let's free the hard drugs, we may get some more of accidents because of drug use.

- More and more teenagers are smoking cigarettes, age of starting to smoke dropped to 13.
- Ok, let's free the hard drugs, so some of them snort cokes and roll joints.

I mean... does this way of thinking go anywhere logical?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

Rafal W.:
Well... quitting most drugs is much easier than for example cigarettes... or alcohol for that matter. I am willing to bet, that you could compare the combined number of deaths caused by hard and soft drugs to deaths caused by tobacco...
No need to bet on that. Numbers are there.
Whilst hard drugs being illegal.
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

ilter K.:

I mean... does this way of thinking go anywhere logical?

Well... the other way created more misery, crime, poverty and deaths... why not try something that is the absolute opposite?
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

ilter K.:
- Ok, let's free the hard drugs, so some of them snort cokes and roll joints.

I mean... does this way of thinking go anywhere logical?

Dear Ilter, I do not and did not mean to legalize hard drugs. Drugs need to be controlled, soft or hard, illegal or legal. Hard should be forbidden but used for science and medical treatment if possible/feasible.
But we should change our approach to soft drugs, especially Marihuana (unmixed, unmodified) in comparison to our standpoint to alcohol and tobacco. And mind you, tobacco should be forbidden, since it does not serve any purpose at all!
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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h...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Btw:


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Temat: Legalising drugs:

But we should change our approach to soft drugs, especially Marihuana (unmixed, unmodified) in comparison to our standpoint to alcohol and tobacco. And mind you, tobacco should be forbidden, since it does not serve any purpose at all!

Wisdom speaketh through thy mouth!
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Rafal W.:
ilter K.:

I mean... does this way of thinking go anywhere logical?
Well... the other way created more misery, crime, poverty and deaths... why not try something that is the absolute opposite?
How do YOU know that, Rafał?
Don't you think the human life is too important to make trials?

Will you be comfortable, and have full trust on your parenting skills when your daughter is able to buy marijuana from the corner shop for a buck?ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 02.12.08 o godzinie 22:59
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

I really don't know if that was needed, but here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)#Effects
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

I always thought that the whole classification of drugs as hard or soft is pure bullshit, as it's pretty subjective IMHO.

I mean, "hard drugs" are considered to be more addictive, but I guess that depends on one's will and (to a lesser extent) organism, anyone agrees on this?

Either way, it's not like I care THAT much. Although I wouldn't mind Mary Jane getting legalized, if only for those peeps that still dig it. Why bother with all the fucking hassle when you could just buy it officially in a cannabis coffee shop? And as I already stated in some other topic, I don't believe that people who wouldn't smoke it normally would just start buying it like crazy, just because it's legal or something. Plus, if someone wants to get the weed, he'll get it - no matter the process involved.

Ilter: The funny thing about weed is that I've seen a shitload of reports on it's "long term" effects, health risks et cetera and each one of them stated something different. :)

PS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTYcnUBADw
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Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Michał G.:

I mean, "hard drugs" are considered to be more addictive, but I guess that depends on one's will and (to a lesser extent) organism, anyone agrees on this?

That's it, like with everything effecting your body, everybody has a different threshhold, as with pain resistance too for instance.
And as I
already stated in some other topic, I don't believe that people who wouldn't smoke it normally would just start buying it like crazy, just because it's legal or something. Plus, if someone wants to get the weed, he'll get it - no matter the process involved.

That's what studies and experiences in The Netherlands and Switzerland show: Legalize it and the usage rate slightly increases and then falls back to the same statistical amount before the legalization.

Ilter: The funny thing about weed is that I've seen a shitload of reports on it's "long term" effects, health risks et cetera and each one of them stated something different. :)

Well, even the article Ilter posted from Wikipedia states the contradictions of studies and some nice and positive effects ;-)
PS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTYcnUBADw

Nice video :)

@Ilter: Please don't fly of the handle, mate. Drugs do not belong into the hands of kids and drugs stronger than M.J. have grave effects on people. No one denies that. Point is though that marihuana is demonized for many wrong reasons and alcohol and tobacco are defended for the wrong reasons as well. That's a double standard. And as a parents or a pedagogue you should know that creating double standard gets your kids really itchy to try and rebel. Bad parenting indeet :)
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Bernd Schreckenberg:
Point is though that marihuana is demonized for many wrong reasons and alcohol and tobacco are defended for the wrong reasons as well. That's a double standard.
That's the power of an already established mafia type of industry, Bernd. For me, it's not in the category of a "double standard".
And as a parents or a pedagogue you should know that creating double standard gets your kids really itchy to try and rebel. Bad parenting indeet :)
Well, current kids (:)) already know some facts about cannabis and tobacco. That's why I don't even try to fool my 19 yo son. He is addicted to cigarette smoking and tried (many times) drugs. I think he was (or is) very close to be a drug addict too.
So... tell me about it.
@Ilter: Please don't fly of the handle, mate. Drugs do not belong into the hands of kids and drugs stronger than M.J. have grave effects on people.
No problem. That wasn't my intention.
But it is always good to hear the things like "drugs do not belong to the hands of kids", I must say :)
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Michał G.:
I always thought that the whole classification of drugs as hard or soft is pure bullshit, as it's pretty subjective IMHO.
Actually it is not subjective. Unless you prepare your own mix.
Heroin is a heroin. Like in Chemistry classes.
I mean, "hard drugs" are considered to be more addictive, but I guess that depends on one's will and (to a lesser extent) organism, anyone agrees on this?
As far as I know, "soft" drugs are more addictive, because you get them in small amounts, more often. Take a good 2 shots of heroin, in the same 12 hours, your life might change.
... I don't believe that people who wouldn't smoke it normally would just start buying it like crazy, just because it's legal or something.
First, your way: I would definately go and try to get a pack.
Second, my way: If tobacco/cigarettes were forbidden today, I'd quit smoking the same day.

Why, because I'm not kinda guy who is going to spend his time and change his way to find the stuff. It is not cool and convenient for me.
If the substance/poison is on my way, or it is sold in the same place where I buy my bułki, it is easier. Takes 10 more seconds to get it.
Plus, if someone wants to get the weed, he'll get it - no matter the process involved.
Have you ever bought something from a supermarket that actually wasn't needed?
Now imagine this: this unneeded stuff makes you hallucinate and takes away your control on your own body.
Ilter: The funny thing about weed is that I've seen a shitload of reports on it's "long term" effects, health risks et cetera and each one of them stated something different. :)
Isn't it normal?
Scientists are still unable to say: "Cigarette smoking causes cancer" although we're smoking this shit since ages.
Science is not able to make the connection for 100% with tobacco.
But drugs?
Read on. It is not the same.
If reading is not enough, find some marijuana, and see how it changes your perception in 2 minutes.
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

Sorry guys no to contribute much to yer dispute. I do not really want to take moral hi-ground here, that's why.

If yer hungry, yer prone to buy stuff you don't need.
If you need to get high, you'll find yer drugs anyway.

I still think, there is certain strategy behind criminalizing MJ and not criminalizing stuff like they have on sale in all these fun shops. Speaking of which it seems they're popping out like shrooms in a damp forest.Andrzej Dobrucki edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.12.08 o godzinie 09:09
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

They can't illegalize (is there such a word?) tobacco.
I wish they could, but it is too late.
Maybe in 50 years.
I really prefer tobacco as an illegal substance. Just like heroin and cannabis/marijuana.
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

ilter K.:
Rafal W.:
ilter K.:

I mean... does this way of thinking go anywhere logical?
Well... the other way created more misery, crime, poverty and deaths... why not try something that is the absolute opposite?
How do YOU know that, Rafał?

Well, because I live in a place where 2.2 million people are in jails and over 65% of them are there directly because of drugs... others.. who knows what % of those people had been involved in some sort of drug scheme. The wrong outweighs the right by a N fold and since as someone has stated previously - prior to the war.. or even up until the 50's majority of drugs were legal and available over the counter and somehow our society managed to move forward and not crumble in a cloud of a THC smoke... I think we'd do just fine yet again.
Again Ilter $600 per second... this could educate enough people. It would also take so many kids off the street. Right now in every city, every town and every village world wide, there are kids dying from either a shoot out with another gang, police or simply due to an OD because they are illegal.
Don't you think the human life is too important to make trials?

I think human life is more important than anything else in this case and this is why I think we should consider legalizing, simply because since the War on Drugs we've lost millions of innocent people due to it...

Will you be comfortable, and have full trust on your parenting skills when your daughter is able to buy marijuana from the corner shop for a buck?

I'd rather have her get it legally from a store where there would be quality control then to get it in the street where she wouldn't have any control over what is she buying exactly from whom and where... because if she wants it.. she will get it right now with out a problem anyway but she will be risking her life and her health every single time and that's just stupid.

ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia
02.12.08 o godzinie 22:59
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Legalising drugs:

Rafal W.:
ilter K.:
How do YOU know that, Rafał?

Well, because I live in a place where 2.2 million people are in jails and over 65% of them are there directly because of drugs... others..
er, I didn't mean that... I meant future. How do you know that the things will be better by legalizing drugs.
It sounds like to me, that you're not aware of the risks we already took by mass-producing tobacco and accepting the rules of Philip Morris. Like we're not paying taxes to cure people who suffer from tobacco addiction.

I just can't imagine then future when weeds/cannabis/marijuana is mass-consumed and sold in corner shops etc.
It is already nearly impossible to control underage kids buying cigarettes, how this joint thing could go.

If you tell me: "We've seen it in the Netherlands, it went ok", I'll probably object, because the level of awareness, education about drugs and the demographics of that country is very different than, say, Poland.

I just can't say "set it free, it will be better that way".
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

Let's legalise mugs while we're at it. They're good. They're sturdy and they're perfect for drinking hot beverages. I can't see any reason why they should be banned!

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Temat: Legalising drugs:


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Legalise plugs!
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Temat: Legalising drugs:

Dave Andrew:

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Ah finally someone with a bit of an experience in this field, are you the rug dealer?
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