Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

I have lived in Luton myself.

and so? they changed their way of speaking for the duration of your stay there? ;-p

I have never heard of such a thing as a 'Luton dialect'.

In the past I did't hear about Liverpudlian English - it doesn't mean it didn't exist then! :)

There is no such thing as 'a Luton dialect'.

If something doesn't exist in your mind it has no right to be real? Interesting!

What you have written above is a complete irrelevance.

yeah, surprise, surprise..... why would I think it would be relevant for you.....

I'd say you are coming across as both arrogant and foolish.

I am not expecting you to treat me with any respect, Warren. I am not under such a dilusion after your comments!
As for opinions of others about what I say, perhaps, it would be more courteous (if it's at all possible for you) to let them speak for themselves....

The fact that you lived in Luton does not mean there is no Luton dialect!! It's a bit like saying - because I lived in Warsaw there is no Warsaw dialect and there is one or you will argue with a native speaker of Polish?! ;-p

As a matter of fact in schools in places like Zakopane, Krakow, Poznan, where there are strong dialects, it is the literary Polish that is being taught and not dialects.
Likewise, when English is taught around the world in language schools, it is mainly the so called RP version that is (in theory at least) taught. Also in schools in Luton where I had a pelasure to teach, teachers do not use eg. the mentioned glottal 't' when teaching, even though in everyday life they freely speak with - the still existing :)))) - Luton dialect.

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

warren whitmore:
Just to say, Grażyna, I'm quite sure you're a nice person.

You also write English exceptionally well, which shows you must be intelligent.

Warren, how can I be foolish and intelligent at the same time?! ;-p

I just think you are very, very, very, very wrong about certain points.

You have every right to disagree with people, but no right to force your opinions as the only correct ones, though!

I also believe that when I write about the English language, generally I know what I'm talking about.

There is no great virtue in insisting you are correct, no matter what

exactly, Warren! :)))

For goodness sake, Warren, what am I to do? Deny what I heard when talking with my friends here who also are native speakers of English, just to help you prove your points?
I posted a link with samples of dialects in the UK, among which Luton dialect is very much mentioned and still you pronounce it non-existent.....
I do not have a need to be right for the sake of being right. I gladly admit that I am wrong when I am and am always open to learn.

However, arguments like: 'it is like this beacuse I am a native English/Polish/Chinese speaker' do not prove the discussed points.
I am a native Polish speaker, yet I would not be employed in any school to teach Polish!!! I don't have qualifications (the extensive/detailed/ knowledge of the systems governing the language) to do it!
Nowadays, in Poland language schools (the good ones) do not employ people who are just native speakers of English, but have no linguistic and methodological qualifications to do it!

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Grazyna Nnachi:

I have lived in Luton myself.

and so? they changed their way of speaking for the duration of your stay there? ;-p

I have never heard of such a thing as a 'Luton dialect'.

In the past I did't hear about Liverpudlian English - it doesn't mean it didn't exist then! :)

There is no such thing as 'a Luton dialect'.

If something doesn't exist in your mind it has no right to be real? Interesting!

What you have written above is a complete irrelevance.

yeah, surprise, surprise..... why would I think it would be relevant for you.....

I'd say you are coming across as both arrogant and foolish.

I am not expecting you to treat me with any respect, Warren. I am not under such a dilusion after your comments!
As for opinions of others about what I say, perhaps, it would be more courteous (if it's at all possible for you) to let them speak for themselves....

The fact that you lived in Luton does not mean there is no Luton dialect!! It's a bit like saying - because I lived in Warsaw there is no Warsaw dialect and there is one or you will argue with a native speaker of Polish?! ;-p

As a matter of fact in schools in places like Zakopane, Krakow, Poznan, where there are strong dialects, it is the literary Polish that is being taught and not dialects.
Likewise, when English is taught around the world in language schools, it is mainly the so called RP version that is (in theory at least) taught. Also in schools in Luton where I had a pelasure to teach, teachers do not use eg. the mentioned glottal 't' when teaching, even though in everyday life they freely speak with - the still existing :)))) - Luton dialect.

When I say there is no such thing as a 'Luton dialect'. I mean there is no form of speech that is peculiar to Luton.

I don't mean that no-one in Luton speaks non-standard English.

A dialect has to be very different to regular speech to be labelled such.

We are talking at cross-purposes. I would accuse you of not really understanding what I am writing. Please think before putting finger to keyboard.

I was in Luton about 15 years ago. I doubt that the way people speak English there has changed much since then. As I informed you earlier, there is such a thing as a Bedfordshire dialect that used to be spoken by agricultural workers, but no-one talks of a Luton dialect as they would of a Black country dialect, for example.

The 'dialect' (and nobody calls it a dialect) spoken in Luton is 'Estuary English' if you have never heard the term before. Look it up in Wikipedia. 'Estuary English' is spoken throughout the South East of England, and not just in Luton.

Btw, I would imagine it almost impossible for an English person to live in a particular location and be unaware of how the people around him were speaking.

And I am more interested than the average person in accents, dialects and so on.

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Grazyna Nnachi:

Warren, how can I be foolish and intelligent at the same time?!

Most people, no doubt including myself, are a mixture of intelligence and stupidity.

For goodness sake, Warren, what am I to do? Deny what I heard when talking with my friends here who also are native speakers of English, just to help you prove your points?

Listen more carefully, and use terminology more accurately.

Also, try to work out if the person you're arguing with knows their subject.

I can assure you I do know my subject here.

Probably most people in Luton can speak English in a non-standard way, but the difference is not so great as to be a dialect in its own right, and neither is the way people speak peculiar to Luton.

I posted a link with samples of dialects in the UK, among which Luton dialect is very much mentioned and still you pronounce it non-existent.....

You posted a sample of speech from Luton.

This proves nothing, I'm afraid.

I do not have a need to be right for the sake of being right. I gladly admit that I am wrong when I am and am always open to learn.

However, arguments like: 'it is like this beacuse I am a native English/Polish/Chinese speaker' do not prove the discussed points.

It is a good argument sometimes.

You just know certain things.

Not because you looked them up, you just know.

Get into an argument with a foreigner who imagines they know best about Polish and you'll see my point pretty quickly.

Nowadays, in Poland language schools (the good ones) do not employ people who are just native speakers of English, but have no linguistic and methodological qualifications to do it!

Your point being?

Do you imagine I am unqualified to teach English?

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Getting to the question itself (before we introduce the cat) it
IS rude to tell anyone how one should speak a language. And any
language.

Throwing away the extremes, telling another person directly how
to communicate his own thoughts is not acceptable.
(Of course we are not talking about close friends conversation,
teacher-student, etc.)

Hmmm. Teacher-student, parent-child. I remember sitting almost in
tears for ages (seemed like hours, probably wasn't) not being allowed to move to the next sentence because my dad insisted I pronounce 'th' correctly, rather than 'f'.
I was 5 years old, maybe 6.

I'm not too sure about corrections between close friends. Well, maybe just if it is occasionally.

I didn't put the cat among the pigeons with that, did I?Steven H. edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.02.08 o godzinie 19:32

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Do you imagine I am unqualified to teach English?

If the only qualification you have is the English birth certificate then, yes, I think you shouldn't be teaching the language! I suppose you agree with the government of your country that only people who possess QTS in a particular subject can teach it in schools(?) Here in the UK when you are not a qualified teacher you can only be a teaching assistant, which I am sure you know:)

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Grazyna Nnachi:

Do you imagine I am unqualified to teach English?

If the only qualification you have is the English birth certificate then, yes, I think you shouldn't be teaching the language! I suppose you agree with the government of your country that only people who possess QTS in a particular subject can teach it in schools(?) Here in the UK when you are not a qualified teacher you can only be a teaching assistant, which I am sure you know:)

Oh, leave it out, Grażyna.

I have a P.G.C.E. which means I am qualified to teach in British schools.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.02.08 o godzinie 20:12

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

PPFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTT!

Draw.

;)

Temat: Is it rude to tell an Englishman how he should speak...

Joj Y.:
PPFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTT!

Draw.

;)

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