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Temat: Integration

As far as I know, he`s strongly integrated to numerous women:) Maybe he needs a change:D

Guy, noooooooo:)Will you help me find a real one?
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Temat: Integration

Violetta P.:
As far as I know, he`s strongly integrated to numerous women:) Maybe he needs a change:D

Guy, noooooooo:)Will you help me find a real one?
OK ... that's a deal ... I will help you :)
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
Trainer, Translator,
Proofreader

Temat: Integration

How much have you integrated as a foreigner into the Polish society? Do you consider yourself a Pole?

Fairly well. I spend 99% of my time with Poles and I speak the language. However, I don't consider myself Polish for the simple reason that I'm not.
If you speak the language, do you read our (local) papers, watch/listen to the news? If not, how else? Would you ever go on a Polish music concert?

I sometimes find myself flicking through Wyborcza. Don't watch much TV, though. Haven't found anything decent. M jak Milosc doesnt' really do it for me. I prefer watching films. However, I find the "lektor" system of translation extremely irritating to the point of ruining the film entirely.

I have been to many Polish concerts, including the mighty Doda!!!
Do you support OUR football teams and beauty contests, no mention the Eurovision?

Certainly not!
What are the things definitely you're NOT going to integrate with?

I'm not going to intergrate with the go-to-church thing... That's something I can't get. I remember I almost found it shocking when I first came here that people my age or younger would actually go to church of, apparently, their own free will.

Moving back to the language.. As I said, I speak Polish. However, there's one thing I've got a bit of a block about: the Pan/ Pani thing. I never really liked that about French either, the Tu/ Vous thing. But the Pan/ Pani thing is even more full-on than the French. For one, it refers to the person you're addressing in the third person which (for me) creates a massive distance. Moreover, the words themselves are rather silly. When I'm addressed as Pan, I can't seem to get the kitchen implement out of my mind, and Pani just sounds plain daft.
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Rafał D.

Rafał D. Head of Production,
Locon Sp. z o.o.

Temat: Integration

Note that for us English "you" creates a massive closeness ;)
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Integration

Rafał D.:
Note that for us English "you" creates a massive closeness ;)

And that's what we want isn't it? ;))
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Temat: Integration

What's funnier, the Silesian dialect uses the... Spanish (or rather German) version of "you" - "wy". So, when talking to your "ujek" (uncle) you end up saying: Mocie recht ("masz rację"), and the same will go for total strangers: Wiela kcecie afruzinów?
I kinda like it, though.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Integration

Tatiana S.:
What's funnier, the Silesian dialect uses the... Spanish (or rather German) version of "you" - "wy". So, when talking to your "ujek" (uncle) you end up saying: Mocie recht ("masz rację"), and the same will go for total strangers: Wiela kcecie afruzinów?
I kinda like it, though.

I think I could get into that as well ;)
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Temat: Integration

Lidia K.:

How much have you integrated as a foreigner into the Polish society? Do you consider yourself a Pole?

I have integrated very little.

That's why I spend so much of my bloody time here.

I don't imagine I ever would or could consider myself a Pole.

If you speak the language, do you read our (local) papers, watch/listen to the news? If not, how else? Would you ever go on a Polish music concert?

I read the newspapers (with difficulty) but only to look for things that affect me personally, or things to do with football.

I don't generally watch or listen to the news, although I am sometimes around when the news is on.

Of course, I would go to a concert if it was something I happened to like.

Do you support OUR football teams and beauty contests, no mention the Eurovision?

I support the local football team, Pogoń, because it is the local team, and watch them regularly.

As far as the national team is concerned, I could no more support them than agree to a sex change operation.

National excitment over sporting events looks absurd from the outside, if you do not feel personally involved.

One thing I can't understand, and intensely dislike, is people supporting non-national club football teams.

No Englishman does this.

There is even a Portsmouth supporters club in Poland.

What are the things definitely you're NOT going to integrate with?
Food is the easiest, try with something else.

Often you can't help but integrate.

For example, I'm always shaking hands and saying 'dzień dobry' in ways most English people would find absurd.

I never decided to do this, I just do it because that is what is expected.

I don't think people decide whether they wish to integrate or not, it just happens.

Things that used to strike you as being extremely odd start becoming the norm.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 11.06.08 o godzinie 18:20
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Temat: Integration

Violetta P.:
Jon M.:
warren whitmore:
Nice long post, Jon.


Wrote it earlier - couldn't post it because of internet problems so kept on revising it and trying not to sound bitter. Any bitterness was due to overhearing (at the Polish branch of an international group) someone saying to another person that 'Anglicy zą tak ohydyny jak Żydzi' (for me a compliment, but not intended that way), and another member of the same telling me 'nie lubię Anglików, ale Ty jesteś jedynym Anglikiem że lubię'. I tried not to show my anger, however if those statements were made in UK, they would be illegal.

And the people who made them are part of the so-called cultural elite!
Forget them! And so will I as I am ashamed...

Don't be.

Virtually all the unpleasantness I've heard in Poland has been foreigners slagging off Poles, rather than the other way around.

Actually, I have a bigger problem with people trying to be over-friendly in ways I found embarrassing, rather than hearing English people being slagged off, which rarely happens.

You're more likely to be trying to shake off people making gauche, cringeworthy attempts at friendship, than facing outright hostility.
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Temat: Integration

warren whitmore:
Actually, I have a bigger problem with people trying to be over-friendly

It remains me of my grandma and many, usually elderly, ladies who get absolutely stunned and enchanted when they see Black children. They bow down to their prams, chirp "Oh, oh, oh, you tiny pretty chocolate!" and probably don't find anything wrong or unappropriate in it. It's nothing but a kind of quasi-friendly labelling and emphasising the racial difference, IMHO. You're a tiny pretty chocolate muffin or whatever, you're black, you're exotic, you're different than us, actually.
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Temat: Integration

I'm not black tho'.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Integration

What's wrong with making efforts to become friends with you?
Why shaking them them off?
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Temat: Integration

Response to Lidia:

Probably I can't explain it to you, you would have to experience it yourself to understand what I mean.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 12.06.08 o godzinie 01:48
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Temat: Integration

If it hadn't been for my friends and family in the States, I would have NEVER been able to find my way around those damn rednecks. Not only was I thrown in a completely different country, but had to cope with living in the south of the States. I guess what helped a lot was the fact that I could communicate to the people around me (even though the southern drawl was a bit hard to follow), and that I'd known a few of them before I came.
The culture shock came unexpected - I thought I was coping with everything, managed to work out the different measures, was happily using an automatic shift etc., when, one day, I was sat home alone (as, unfortunately, this was a huge part of my life there) and realized how far away I was from my friends and family in Poland. All I could do was call a close friend in Utah, as at least she was in the same time zone. Things got a little better when we moved into a quieter suburban neighborhood, but then got worse again, only it wasn't a matter of integration any more.
Would I have done it again if I knew how it would end? The answer is yes. It was an invaluable experience, I am still good friends with most of the people I met in the States (including my ex) - but I believe I'm far better off in Poland.
If I could move to any other country, it would be Spain though - have a nice little house either up north, near Pamplona or south, in Andalusia.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Integration

warren whitmore:
Response to Lidia:

Probably I can't explain it to you, you would have to experience it yourself to understand what I mean.

Heheheh...
I think I know what you mean. I've seen it.

And I've been to Egypt last autumn. Everyone wanted to be friends with me to sell things, to date or just the way they communicate with tourists. No big deal but sooooo tiring.
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Temat: Integration

Obviously, it's not quite as bad as that.

And with Poland having joined the E.U., coming from 'the West' is no longer such a big deal.

But in the nineties, it was a different matter altogether.
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Temat: Integration

What are the things definitely you're NOT going to integrate with?

I'm not going to intergrate with the go-to-church thing...

me either :)

Moving back to the language.. As I said, I speak Polish. However, there's one thing I've got a bit of a block about: the Pan/ Pani thing.

now........ me either :)
its really funny, because when I'm here in Dublin then I say 'you' to everybody even polish people,
but when i go back for holiday to Poland then, well, i start using Pan/pani, but i never liked it even befor my travel to dublin. it's stupid and pointless, i think. ;)
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Temat: Integration

Magda B.:
warren whitmore:
Actually, I have a bigger problem with people trying to be over-friendly

It remains me of my grandma and many, usually elderly, ladies who get absolutely stunned and enchanted when they see Black children. They bow down to their prams, chirp "Oh, oh, oh, you tiny pretty chocolate!" and probably don't find anything wrong or unappropriate in it. It's nothing but a kind of quasi-friendly labelling and emphasising the racial difference, IMHO. You're a tiny pretty chocolate muffin or whatever, you're black, you're exotic, you're different than us, actually.

and if some say: he's so cute chocolate. i love chocolate, could eat it whole.
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Lidia K.

Lidia K. +

Temat: Integration

warren whitmore:
But in the nineties, it was a different matter altogether.
Gee, were small children running after you in groups to get a sweet or to get a kiss in the cheek?
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Temat: Integration

I always thought that integrating in the US would be something easy, simply because of the amount of foreigners living here already, I was however greatly mislead by what I have previously learned about this country from TV, movies and stories. There is a huge difference between living in a metro area, suburbs and the country. Those are three very different places and mentality as well as willingness to accept strangers varies greatly.

I didn’t know a word of English and pretty much started school after two months of being here. There was no serious culture shock, as Tatiana mentioned, the distance slowly sinks in and after a while and it is a bit of a heavy burden but I think it does work on a case to case basis. I was never a home body, so being far from it didn’t effect me as much.

I think you can compare cultural integration with a blind person trying to climb a cliff. Statistically you know that you should be able to scale this wall, just like others before you; you come equipped with a set of tools like your brain, common sense and logic but technically it becomes more complex as you try to find first places to hang your “ropes” on. Language is a great help, but before you pick that up, you must first somehow find your niche and start climbing the social wall, breaking boundaries and understand where these people are coming from.

Two questions that annoyed me to no end –
1. Do you have jeans in Poland? (why? I don’t know)
2. Do to all the cold war movies and propaganda where all eastern block countries were always portrayed as cold, desolate places where winter roams, I often had to answer – So, like, do you guys have summers over there? I mean, how cold does it get?

Cities and more metro areas are very easy to assimilate due to the huge blander of cultures. However, the more you move away from those areas, the harder it becomes, people are more family oriented, and entire towns know each well, you can’t possibly “hide”. As open and pleasant as these people are, I noticed that their social lives are very much different from those living in cities. For example, living in a city, your friends often invite you for dinner, people enjoy social cooking and gatherings, where in the country, and dinners are usually reserved for the closest friends and family. Some of it may have to do with distances that you’d have to cover just to visit someone, hours and miles of travel make it more of an all day event, while in the city, it would be a matter of either crossing the street, jumping in a cab or a short subway ride. Distance plays a huge role in the US. Something that, I have never really thought about while living in Poland. Here travel is measured in hours and minutes and not in miles or kilometers. When asked how far do you live from any given location, the expected answer does not include actual distance, but rather the travel time involved.Raf Aardvark edytował(a) ten post dnia 12.06.08 o godzinie 20:17
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