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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Sylwia S.:

why is it so bad? since when love has been unnatural?Sylwia S. edytował(a) ten post dnia >17.09.09 godzinie 13:32

I'm not writing about love but about a homo-family which is unnatural. Why? Let me explain.

1. In nature the goal of sexuality is procreation, love is incidental feature of this phenomenon.
2. Straight relationship leads 2 procreation, rite?
3. Homo relationship doesn't lead 2 procreation so it's not consistent with the natural goal of sexuality.
4. Homo-family must be artificially created so cannot be natural.
Homo-relationship doesn't lead 2
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Paweł Gąsior:
Sylwia S.:

why is it so bad? since when love has been unnatural?Sylwia S. edytował(a) ten post dnia >17.09.09 godzinie 13:32

I'm not writing about love but about a homo-family which is unnatural. Why? Let me explain.

1. In nature the goal of sexuality is procreation, love is incidental feature of this phenomenon.

for more developed people, love is the basis of the rest. sorry if it is not for you.

if there is no love, there is no emotional space for a child.

2. Straight relationship leads 2 procreation, rite?

so why the heck so many people refrain from having as many kids as they phisically could?
3. Homo relationship doesn't lead 2 procreation so it's not consistent with the natural goal of sexuality.

condoms or other ways of contraception do not lead to it either
what about oral and anal sex? do these lead to conception?
are they natural then?

4. Homo-family must be artificially created so cannot be natural.
Homo-relationship doesn't lead 2

Some heterosexual couples cannot have kids either.

We live in such times when you can be more in control of these things. There are special clinics who help couples no matter on their orientattion.

What about single mothers, are they "unnatural", too?

Also the roles in society have changed and you do not go out to kill an animal to feed your family. Most people are employed in services that satisfy very different needs from the "natural" ones.

The world nowadays goes ahead, you might miss something or you already have.
As long as someone's lifestyle does not threaten yourself, why bother?
Live and let live.

Otherwise I might think you're very narrow-minded as the facts you have provided smell too simplified to me.
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Well, it's only logic. I only write that something's natural or unnatural not good or bad.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Paweł Gąsior:
1. In nature the goal of sexuality is procreation, love is incidental feature of this phenomenon.
Wrong. In nature, there's no `goal` as procreation.
When chimpansees mate, they don't think about having 1 boy and 1 girl, then going for vacation to Maldives.
Where did you learn that crap?
(I'm sorry)
2. Straight relationship leads 2 procreation, rite?
Sometimes it doesn't. What shall we do, break up and mate the next one who can `procreate`?
3. Homo relationship doesn't lead 2 procreation so it's not consistent with the natural goal of sexuality.
Because your 1st definition of `natural goal` has nothing to do with the reality, this goes down the bin.
4. Homo-family must be artificially created so cannot be natural.
If the English word "natural" you use, derives from "nature", you need to go back to high school and study Biology.
If it's not `logical`, watch some Discovery Channel.
Or ot least, for God's sake, LEARN something using internet!
Homo-relationship doesn't lead 2
.. doesn't lead 3, doesn't lead 4...
I'm not writing about love but about a homo-family which is unnatural. Why? Let me explain.
It explains you're repeating the words you'd learnt from a priest, or you haven't learn anything serious yet.
Sorry, but someone had to put it this way.
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

ilter K.:

1. Yeah, well, agreed 'a goal' is not a correct word here - maybe 'function' is the one. And lol - chimpansees are not the begin of the history of evolution. The way they behave evolved from simplier organisms and it wouldn't have happened if the procreation wasn't the main feature. So nobody cares what chimpansees "think" when their m8, it's the effect what really matters and it's procreation.

2. Generally it leads. If not - nature knows many ways 2 deal with it. Watch Discovery, then u'll learn :P

3. U could have written "Becouse ur 1st definition has nothing ... homo relationship leads 2 pregnancy", ROFL

4. LMAO - and i'll learn that 2 spermatozoons can create zygote? I doubt.

And goddamnit! Why do u think i've heard this stuff from a priest? Look at me, do i look like a lamb of god??
No hard feelings, but read anything about the evolution urself :P
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Paweł Gąsior:
I'm not writing about love but about a homo-family which is unnatural. Why? Let me explain.
It is natural by definition, since it occurs in nature. It's not necessarily nurtured.Joj Y. edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.09.09 o godzinie 19:46
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Paweł G.

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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Joj Y.:
Paweł Gąsior:
I'm not writing about love but about a homo-family which is unnatural. Why? Let me explain.
It is natural by definition, since it occurs in nature.

It occurs but as a deviation. Something like an earthquake ;)

Edit: oh, my bad it's not written "relationship" but in the quote. So... homo family is not so natural as an earthquake. It's so natural as a pair of gay-dogs rising their adopted pup :DPaweł Gąsior edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.09.09 o godzinie 20:20
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

General thoughts.

Personally, people should have a right to have children, it involves adoption as well. And I mean all people.

I also consider adopting a child in the future. But the saddest thing is that you have to be rich enough or famous to adopt a child, otherwise forget it! (I think about homosexuals in here).

One more thing, Poland is so narrow minded. If we are so into Christianity we should learn tolerance. The Bible does not condemn homosexuals if you cite Sodomy I advise you to read it very carefully again.

I think, media is responsible for the bad picture of gay and lesbian relationships.

It is clear for people that porn films are not real and most of these people do not have such a rich sexual life, but for some reason it does not apply to homosexuals.

Evolution?

Not everyone has to procreate. Show me a law that states clearly, the aim of human life is to procreate.

First there was slavery, then is homosexuality, people will get over it sooner or later.

Time will tell.

Yes, I believe Elton John has the right to adopt a child as every homosexual. Still, I hope mothers will not take advantage of it just to make money on their children.Karolina Kaczmarek edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.09.09 o godzinie 20:03
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Karolina Kaczmarek:
Evolution?

Not everyone has to procreate. Show me a law that states clearly, the aim of human life is to procreate.

Well, again. "aim" is a very bad word here. I know that i used it first and i agree that it was stupid and i'm sorry.
Science doesn't consider 'aims' in evolution - it considers "features" or "schemes" and procreation is one of the most important.
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Paweł Gąsior:
Well, again. "aim" is a very bad word here. I know that i used it first and I agree that it was stupid and i'm sorry.
I doubt anyone would accuse you of stupidity, P., and you know it. :) I wouldnt worry about choices of words. We're not composing contracts. Your opinion is as valuable as anyone's.
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Joj Y.:
I doubt anyone would accuse you of stupidity, P., and you know it. :) I wouldnt worry about choices of words. We're not composing contracts. Your opinion is as valuable as anyone's.

:) Thx. But u see - in this case the choice of words significantly influenced the meaning of my opinion and made it really silly from my (extremely scientific;) point of view.
All in all - i'm giving many opinions and statistically, some of them must be stupid :D
I'm a supporter of the idea that only the one never says anything stupid, who doesn't say anything at all ;)
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Paweł Gąsior:
1. Yeah, well, agreed 'a goal' is not a correct word here - maybe 'function' is the one. And lol - chimpansees are not the begin of the history of evolution.
Evolution is not the subject here. Cimpanzees was just an example.

Same sex mating exists in nature.

This is what you've been missing.

We don't have sex to get the babies. We have sex because it is one of the most pleasurable things to do with our bodies.

You got it now?
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Bernd Schreckenberg

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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

ilter K.:

Same sex mating exists in nature.

In Germany, in Berlin's or Bremen's zoo, a famous gay penguin couple came into the headlines the other day when one turned hetero and became a father. It was all over the news.

Otherwise are penguins known for building life-long gay relationships, amongst other animals, where gay-sex or partnerships (long- or short-term) exist (Orang-Utans, lions, you name it).

And I'm not really trying to procreate at the moment either ;)
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Bernd Schreckenberg:
Sylwia S.:
Bernd Schreckenberg:
>> If your choice is to be gay then the consequence not being able to
adopt a child comes with your choice.

i wish my orientation was my choice:)

I wouldn't be able to have an opinion about that. If you are born gay and you want rights you don't have in the place you are born, you'll have to fight for them as everybody else before you had to fight for theirs (Women's right to vote for instance).

So far I understand.

But if you live in a place and then choose to be gay you can either try to change things or accept the consequence of your action. That's a totally different situation then the above.

As far as I would be willing to allow everything, a child's well being comes before an adult's right to adopt, IMHO.

Here I don't understand a single thing.
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

I am sooooo damn exhausted by such discussions.

All those "what's the best for the child", "natural vs. unnatural", all those "I have nth. against but I'm against".

The only reason why I usually can't ignore them is what Bernd was kind to notice: if the rights you want don't exist in a society you have to fight for them.

@Bernd: Do you really think fighting for a certain group's human rights is the responsibility of that group only?
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Kamila G.:
I am sooooo damn exhausted by such discussions.

All those "what's the best for the child", "natural vs. unnatural", all those "I have nth. against but I'm against".

The only reason why I usually can't ignore them is what Bernd was kind to notice: if the rights you want don't exist in a society you have to fight for them.

fair enough.
but if the society is driven by different values than yours, then you should be mobile.
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Sylwia S.:
Kamila G.:
I am sooooo damn exhausted by such discussions.

All those "what's the best for the child", "natural vs. unnatural", all those "I have nth. against but I'm against".

The only reason why I usually can't ignore them is what Bernd was kind to notice: if the rights you want don't exist in a society you have to fight for them.

fair enough.
but if the society is driven by different values than yours, then you should be mobile.

I'm dumb today. It's again I can't understand what someone's says;-). My intuition tells me I will agree with anything Sylwia is going to say in that thread, only I have no idea what you meant here:-). Please expand:-).
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Instead of this endless nonsense about whether two people who love each other and convince the adoption panel that they would make good parents can adopt - of course they should be allowed to - how about a new law banning bigots from adopting children? They really do harm children.Dave A. edytował(a) ten post dnia 18.09.09 o godzinie 11:10
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

Kamila G.:
Sylwia S.:
Kamila G.:
I am sooooo damn exhausted by such discussions.

All those "what's the best for the child", "natural vs. unnatural", all those "I have nth. against but I'm against".

The only reason why I usually can't ignore them is what Bernd was kind to notice: if the rights you want don't exist in a society you have to fight for them.

fair enough.
but if the society is driven by different values than yours, then you should be mobile.

I'm dumb today. It's again I can't understand what someone's says;-). My intuition tells me I will agree with anything Sylwia is going to say in that thread, only I have no idea what you meant here:-). Please expand:-).

;]

I mean here that if you were brought up somewhere and suddenly you found out you didn't fit as a gay, then you can move somewhere else, where life is 'easier' and there is no illegality towards your needs.
if you're not catholic enough, then you should look for more atheist society;]
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Kasia M.

Kasia M. "Świat jest taki,
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Temat: Elton John wants to adopt...

what about heterosexual foster parents who claim benefits for their foster children and this is the only one point when they fulfill their parental duties?
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