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Temat: Cultural tolerance

Well, can't agree with you more...
The power of good, proper education!
Here in Poland you will often hear people saying that Americans have no bloody idea about the rest of the world. Strangely enough, the ones I know seems to know more than many of my Polish friends.
I think we, Europeans, imagine that Europe is still the navel of the world. How much does an average European know about cultures, politics, art or geography of South America, Africa or even North America (the USA excluded)?

Education is for obvious reasons going to the dogs worldwide!

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I have learned so much about other cultures by being exposed to them via friends, co-workers etc etc. I think, that being able
to first hand experience ie. dinner with an Indian family or
Asian etc etc... being able to be a part of their conversations
at a table in a "safe" environment, where everyone is relaxed and > ready to really speak their minds on all kinds of issues. You can not learn things like that from a book or a class room. Only better way is to live in their country.

But aren't the people with whom you dine and mix the immigrants that, for whatever reason, have integrated? Isn't this how you know them, and why things are nice and relaxed between you?

My impression is that there were/are certain classes of immigrant that already have established many of the cultural similarities of the host nation (for example higher education), and these get passed on to their children as they are able to support them properly.
Other immigrants probably had/have little schooling, and though they may have been grateful for the opportunity in the host country, they can't support their kids in their education, and probably haven't had well-paid jobs to have comfortable retirements either. The result is an unemployable and resentful second generation and poverty.

Though there is now this question of sharia, I think that this is just symptom of all the antagonism comes from the fact that certain groups never advance in society, and can't because they aren't equipped to. If I was in this situation I'd look angrily at the apparent unfairness of the "other half's" very conspicuous consumption.

I have drifted away from the nice idea of togetherness by the sharing cultural stories and smoking the pipe of peace together, etc. But I think that it all boils down to inequalities in formal education (reading, writing, maths, science, etc.) and resultant inequalities of income.

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Temat: Cultural tolerance

Steven H.:

But aren't the people with whom you dine and mix the immigrants that, for whatever reason, have integrated? Isn't this how you know them, and why things are nice and relaxed between you?


In most cases this is true. When I was younger, during my High School years, I had the pleasure of enjoying meals with family's of other kids who I met through ESL. Most of their parents spoke hardly any English and were very much into sticking with their own. Also, being an immigrant myself it created a more open dialogue with less restraints and feelings of necessary political correctness.

But I think that it all boils down to inequalities in formal education (reading, writing, maths, science, etc.) and resultant inequalities of income.

Again, definitely agree with you on the issue of education.Rafal Wolk edytował(a) ten post dnia 10.02.08 o godzinie 20:38

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I also think it primarily boils down to education levels. While in the States, I met a few Polish immigrants, some of them successfully adapted to living in a new environs, and some seeming out of place. The latter were mainly the parents of young adults who, like a large number of the Hispanic population, didn't bother to learn English at all because they knew that at the moment of taking the test, they would be 55 and older. I've never been to Chicago but heard stories of people living there without knowing no more than 50 words in broken English - and having mingled with the Hispanic population of Texas, I believe it's actually true.
While I understand that you should never cut the virtual bond that your own language and culture is, I don't think you could ever call yourself a successful immigrant if you don't make the slightest effort to get to know the country where you are living and, more importantly, the people around you.
There are also those who go far beyond the border and lose their Polish identity in a month or two - they're the Max Kolonko and Piotr Krasko types - and I really have no idea what would drive two intelligent men to behavior like that. My uncle has spent over 50 (!) years living in France and his Polish sounds more beutiful than theirs. Not to mention Krasko's inadequately white teeth that remind me of a "Friends" episode when Ross kept the gel on for something like 23 hours longer :D

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You don't have to go to Chicago to run into people who have absolutely no idea how to speak English. Every state has it's pockets. In New Jersey there are towns like Linden - huge Polish community, Clark - Indian, Elizabeth - Hispanic... in all of these cities, you will find thousands upon thousands of people who would look at you weird if you asked them about time, not to mention directions (and I am not exaggerating).
I am also well aware of all the idiots that "forget" their native tongue after a month or so abroad. I'd love to beat some sense into their heads, but I'm affraid it's too late for that.

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Temat: Cultural tolerance

Why do you think I had to learn Spanish? :D

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Temat: Cultural tolerance

Tatiana S.:
Why do you think I had to learn Spanish? :D

hehe.. I picked up a lot of conversational spanish while working in a kitchen (before getting my legal status adjusted).

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Temat: Cultural tolerance

Tatiana S.:
Why do you think I had to learn Spanish? :D

Because you were desperate to translate La Bamba?

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Crossing cultural borders




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