GoldenLine
Zaloguj się

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

I would like to hear people's opinion on this subject. I know it to be a touchy one. I have lived in the greater metro area of NYC for the past 15 years. One would think that cultural tolerance would be something that nobody would have to worry about here. Right? Wrong. NYC is nothing more than a huge box of cultural pockets. Nations and religious groups live and coexist virtually one on top of the other, yet they hardly ever interact unless necessary. Some do get along well but they are mostly teenagers and youngsters. Unfortunately, by the time most kids get out of high school, they get caught up in their own groups and once again alienate themselves from the rest of the community. It is the water and oil phenomenon. No matter how long oil sits in this pot, eventually it will float to the top and separate from the rest. Why is that? Growing up in such a multi cultural environment should bring people together, yet in more ways than one it seperates. Don't get me wrong, there are many people that break those chains but in comparison it is still only a fraction.
I guess my questions are: What will it take for people to see past cultural differences? Do you think it is necessary to create seperate laws to govern various groups and if so, why?
I once had a great coversation with an older "dread locked rasta" he said something that stuck with me - "If you take a white child and a black child and leave them in the same room together, what will they do?" The answer is - they will play together. I am not trying to find the ideal world, I am by no means an idealist, just curious of other's opinions.
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Well, one simple answer to your question would be that they separate for practical reasons. It has nothing to do with being tolerant or not, the feeling is that it is easier for people to function in a more homogenous environment. Otherwise, no matter how hard you try, sooner or later you are bound to hurt someone else's feelings and find yourself in an uncomfortable situation.
I'm sure there are also other reasons.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

I always though that alienating each other or others is more offensive than anything else that one can do. Also, when moving to another country you should ask yourself a question - why am I making this move? Usually the answer is pretty straight forward - to make a better life for my family! How is your life better when you are the outcast of the community?
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance

people migrate for different reasons, to escape from war, natural disasters, to study, to explore new opportunities. I don't think it's wrong and it's not true that inviting immigrants to live in your country creates only problems. Societies with a lot of ethnic groups and good management are generally richer.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Alicja Efejska:
people migrate for different reasons, to escape from war, natural disasters, to study, to explore new opportunities.


well.. yea.. in search for a better life...

I don't think
it's wrong and it's not true that inviting immigrants to live in your country creates only problems.


i never said that is.

Societies with a lot of ethnic
groups and good management are generally richer.


They sure are. This is not the issue at hand thou.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

You see Rafal, here in Italy we have a pretty cool mix of cultures as well. In the 6+ years here I've observed the exact same phenomenon you are talking about: one, big box with cultural pockets (I'm sooooo stealing your expression, btw).

We have Latin, Chinese (well, I should say Asian), African, Muslim neighborhoods, which makes blending into the local "native" society and interaction between the different cultures difficult.

Sadly people are not free from prejudice:

you're from Eastern Europe - you're either a cheap hooker (women), or a drunken bum that will steal or kill for a sip of booze (men);

your skin is yellow and eyes are almond-shaped - you must work 20 hrs a day and are responsible for all the cats that mysteriously disappeared from the neighborhood;

your skin has a nice olive shade - you're Muslim and potentially a terrorist;

you're black - you were born and raised among lions and crocodiles and can be treated like sh*t by the greater Aryan race;

I don't have kids yet, but when I do I know I WILL want to raise them to be prejudice-free people.

In my small world my Mrs. and I have a group ('bout a dozen) of people we like to call friends. We meet whenever we manage to find some free time, you know, just to hang out and have fun or simply eat a pizza in nice company. They're not all foreigners, immigrants, there's a couple of Italians too. They come from South America, North Africa, Middle East, Asia, Europe (Eastern and Western). I don't see the race difference anymore. I see people who tell great jokes, cook yummy stuff, struggle to get along with their roommates etc etc etc.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Jarek Adamowski:

In my small world my Mrs. and I have a group ('bout a dozen) of people we like to call friends. We meet whenever we manage to find some free time, you know, just to hang out and have fun or simply eat a pizza in nice company. They're not all foreigners, immigrants, there's a couple of Italians too. They come from South America, North Africa, Middle East, Asia, Europe (Eastern and Western). I don't see the race difference anymore. I see people who tell great jokes, cook yummy stuff, struggle to get along with their roommates etc etc etc.

I can relate, thanks to my musical hobbies, I have been lucky. Music is a very universal language and I find it to be the best form of communication, most of my friends are from pretty much all walks of life.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Rafal Wolk:
I can relate, thanks to my musical hobbies, I have been lucky. Music is a very universal language and I find it to be the best form of communication, most of my friends are from pretty much all walks of life.
I hear ya! I've met some great people thanks to my guitar :)
Link do wypowiedziLink

Stan K.

Wypowiedzi autora zostały ukryte. Pokaż autora

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

people migrate for different reasons, to escape from war, natural disasters, to study, to explore new opportunities.

I think that Poland is a large country with a low population density. It would be ideal for those in war- and famine-torn to emigrate to.
Once you have 3-4 million of them here, demanding changes to the Polish way of life, banning references to Catholicism in lessons at school, separate lessons for certain children in Urdu (for example), changes to the law, then maybe some suburban social problems from disaffected second-generation immigrants that have failed to integrate properly with society, etc.....
After all that, we'll see how liberal your views are.

For me the biggest problems of immigration of people with vastly different cultures and education levels is simply the creation of ghettos and a second-generation that sits in limbo between their parents and the 'locals'.
So far there doesn't seem to be any country that has found a solution for this. Until they do I think that it is crazy not to try to limit the inflow of people.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Societies with a lot of ethnic groups and good management are generally richer.

I disagree that having different ethnic groups is a prerequisite. I think that education, order, but with yet economic freedom, are the vital ingredients.
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance


For me the biggest problems of immigration of people with vastly different cultures and education levels is simply the creation of ghettos and a second-generation that sits in limbo between their parents and the 'locals'.
So far there doesn't seem to be any country that has found a solution for this. Until they do I think that it is crazy not to try to limit the inflow of people.
When we speak about cultural tolerance, we have to tackle such issues. There are so many points where diffferent cultures actually clash that sometimes it's hard to imagine one can compromise. There's always a question to what extent you can allow others to invade your own entity.
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Steven H.:
Societies with a lot of ethnic groups and good management are generally richer.

I disagree that having different ethnic groups is a prerequisite. I think that education, order, but with yet economic freedom, are the vital ingredients.
Not really, some of my friends with IT background were really welcomed to come and work in Britain. This means foreign resources are often of higher value.
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance


We have Latin, Chinese (well, I should say Asian), African, Muslim neighborhoods, which makes blending into the local "native" society and interaction between the different cultures difficult.

Jarek, I'm very surprised at what you are saying. I've always put Italy on top of my list of "equal rights society" model. It must be Genova. Actually when I was there last year I didn't like the place. I felt there very uncomfortable and even called it foreign.
Sadly people are not free from prejudice:

you're from Eastern Europe - you're either a cheap hooker (women),
I can't believe it either. I've never felt or been treated like one, so it's either Genova again or you perhaps exaggerate
>
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Alicja Efejska:

We have Latin, Chinese (well, I should say Asian), African, Muslim neighborhoods, which makes blending into the local "native" society and interaction between the different cultures difficult.

Jarek, I'm very surprised at what you are saying. I've always put Italy on top of my list of "equal rights society" model. It must be Genova. Actually when I was there last year I didn't like the place. I felt there very uncomfortable and even called it foreign.
Sadly people are not free from prejudice:

you're from Eastern Europe - you're either a cheap hooker (women),
I can't believe it either. I've never felt or been treated like one, so it's either Genova again or you perhaps exaggerate
>
I'm not surprised that during your stay in Genoa you didn't notice the things I've described above. Most tourists don't. The locals won't tell you what they really think about you or other immigrants - it takes time to actually get them to speak openly. You need to listen to what they talk about when they think no one can hear them. Understanding the local dialect helps too.
But of course it may be Genoa as much as it might be any other big city. Some say Genoans (I'm not talking about the footbal club) are very distrustful towards "foreigners", where a foreigner is any person born and raised outside Genoa.

I've seen similar behavior in other parts of Italy, mainly in the northern regions.

PS. I take your post as the long overdue report you were supposed to submit ;)

EDIT: I'm not exaggerating. I'm describing what I see and hear almost everyday.Jarek Adamowski edytował(a) ten post dnia 10.02.08 o godzinie 11:38
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

I disagree that having different ethnic groups is a prerequisite. I think that education, order, but with yet economic freedom, are the vital ingredients.
Not really, some of my friends with IT background were really welcomed to come and work in Britain. This means foreign resources are often of higher value.

Having a degree in IT is not the same as requesting that national institutions be changed to suit you.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Steven H.:
Societies with a lot of ethnic groups and good management are generally richer.

I disagree that having different ethnic groups is a prerequisite.


I have learned so much about other cultures by being exposed to them via friends, co-workers etc etc. I think, that being able to first hand experience ie. dinner with an Indian family or Asian etc etc... being able to be a part of their conversations at a table in a "safe" environment, where everyone is relaxed and ready to really speak their minds on all kinds of issues. You can not learn things like that from a book or a class room. Only better way is to live in their country.
It gave me an insight and better understanding of their every day worries, problems and obsticles. It also allowed me to better understand each culture, which helps greatly with understanding issues that each nationality may have with integrating.

I think that education, order, but with yet economic freedom, are the vital ingredients.

Education (or lack of it) is in my opinion the most important issue.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Jarek Adamowski:
I'm not surprised that during your stay in Genoa you didn't notice the things I've described above. Most tourists don't. The locals won't tell you what they really think about you or other immigrants - it takes time to actually get them to speak openly. You need to listen to what they talk about when they think no one can hear them. Understanding the local dialect helps too.

I think this is something that can be translated into any culture. When you are a tourist, you are more than welcome to stay, shop, eat and leave as much of your capital as you can afford. Once you are somewhere to stay, you start to pick up various issues and stereotypes that otherwise would have passed you by unnoticed.
To me, the greatest shock was the fact that race plays such a huge part in every day life in US. Maybe because I was a young kid, unaware of a lot of things that went on. All I really knew about US was, what I have seen in the movies and TV shows such as "The Wonder Years". "Ignorance never sleeps" - a quote from one of my friends, I think best describes ethnic situation on this side of the pond. Again, I feel it has more to do with the lack of proper education. For example - US High Schools cover World History in one year, but US History takes two years. There are no Geography classes. World History and Geography are probably two most important subjects that a person can study, yet they are pushed aside. How can a person have any understanding of the world and it's cultures, without knowing their own place in it?
Link do wypowiedziLink
Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Rafal Wolk:
Jarek Adamowski:

I'm not surprised that during your stay in Genoa you didn't notice the things I've described above. Most tourists don't. The locals won't tell you what they really think about you or other immigrants - it takes time to actually get them to speak openly. You need to listen to what they talk about when they think no one can hear them. Understanding the local dialect helps too.

I think this is something that can be translated into any culture. When you are a tourist, you are more than welcome to stay, shop, eat and leave as much of your capital as you can afford. Once you are somewhere to stay, you start to pick up various issues and stereotypes that otherwise would have passed you by unnoticed.
To me, the greatest shock was the fact that race plays such a huge part in every day life in US. Maybe because I was a young kid, unaware of a lot of things that went on. All I really knew about US was, what I have seen in the movies and TV shows such as "The Wonder Years". "Ignorance never sleeps" - a quote from one of my friends, I think best describes ethnic situation on this side of the pond. Again, I feel it has more to do with the lack of proper education. For example - US High Schools cover World History in one year, but US History takes two years. There are no Geography classes. World History and Geography are probably two most important subjects that a person can study, yet they are pushed aside. How can a person have any understanding of the world and it's cultures, without knowing their own place in it?

This is a disastrous omission I would say. Especially now when you have to think globally, you might have people making wrong decisions or mistakes.
Link do wypowiedziLink

konto usunięte

Temat: Cultural tolerance

Alicja Efejska:

This is a disastrous omission I would say. Especially now when you have to think globally, you might have people making wrong decisions or mistakes.

It becomes even more disastrous when it comes to supporting decisions of those in power.
Link do wypowiedziLink
« Wróć do tematów
Odpowiedz

Podobne tematy


Następna dyskusja:

Crossing cultural borders




Wyślij zaproszenie do
Anuluj