Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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I see the connection, and I've seen it in action (about the thing Steven wrote). And thats not unique to Britons.
Similar analogies applies and applied to some other countries too.

(But) and I think the matter is not connected directly to Nazis. Rather about "how the things can get out of control if there's a clever d**khead as the leader", and it doesn't mean the whole mass who follows is fascist or communist. They just follow with their animal insticts., they don't judge, they don't use logic.

This is the best way I could interpret and put for now (morning!).ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 15.06.08 o godzinie 10:05

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Steven H.:
Not really joking. It is the sort of comment someone in Britain would make as we aren't too sensitive re. the subject of the Nazis as we didn't directly suffer under the regime, or from the stigma of being a part of it.
Yes, it's quite unlikely anyone would joke about the Nazis here as you've probably noticed while living in PL.

We just don't joke about it. Even the TV ad for the Irish bank with John Cleese that was clearly intended as a joke was offensive to some* because John said 'Guten Morgen!' in it. Seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv4sQEKroa8

* those unfamiliar with Basil, ofc

Secondly, there are maybe some very basic similarities between the football match and the rise of Nazi Germany. And I do emphasize VERY VERY basic.
i.e. failure (tick), feeling that outside forces are to blame (tick), mass ralleying around a single issue (tick). We just need a figurehead in Poland to lead the movement.

As I'm not a historian please feel free to shoot this theory down in flames.
I'll wait for my moment.

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ilter K.:
Rather about "how the things can get out of control if there's a clever d**khead as the leader", and it doesn't mean the whole mass who follows is fascist or communist. They just follow with their animal insticts., they don't judge, they don't use logic.

This is the best way I could interpret and put for now (morning!).
Ilter, there is no leader here (hate campaign), at least I hope so.
But such potential...
Who voted for Andrzej Lepper and the like?

Sometimes I think you're much older (mentally) than 37 ;) It's cool.
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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I am seriously 37. Other 37s are younger. hehe

Lidia, maybe the term "leader" gives a kind of charisma to the person, and that's why it doesn't fit well. So if I have to use a different term, I could use "initiator".
There's always 1 or 2 "dirty" people in the crowd, who vows, shouts and tells what is good for the crowd. They do nothing but provoke, and if mass follows, you get the mess.

We are living in a different age now, in which everyone became a publisher and anyone can spread the word.
So such BS can spread really fast and can go really too far, if the dynamics of the population will not respond quickly: there should be other opinions expressed to rule out the extremist idiots.

I don't see neo-nazi-racist-football-holigans everyday, and this group has to be stopped whenever and wherever possible. It shouldn't be let ruin every good thing that Poland is trying to build.
If Poland faces such failures with grace, maybe then, civilized western nations will be willing to call you 'friends'.

And that was only for a fookin' football game! :)

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ilter K.:
If Poland faces such failures with grace, maybe then, civilized western nations will be willing to call you 'friends'.

That's my point, Ilter.

Poles seem unable to do this, which makes them, frankly ...ahem

One of my Polish friends has pointed out that English people do the same - true.

But not educated and intelligent ones. And certainly not people in positions of responsibility, such as the Prime Minister.
Steve Jones

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Going back to the original point... and a few thoughts...

A few quotes about mistakes/ failure:

"Doing a thing well is often a waste of time." Robert Byrne

"Some of the worst mistakes of my life have been haircuts." Jim Morrison

"There is no failure, only feedback." popular NLP presupposition

Am reading quite a good book called "Fooled by Randomness" in which the claim is made that people overestimate our ability to learn from our mistakes and often do the same old things over and over again. A distinction is made between a mistake (something you do wrong which you know will be wrong based on past experience) and a failure (something you just try out and, due to the randomness and unpredictablity of the future, it doesn't work out).

The interesting thing is why we tend to do the same stupid things over and over again knowing full well that they are in fact stupid...

Any thoughts? Any takers?
Rafał D.

Rafał D. Head of Production,
Locon Sp. z o.o.

Temat: Coping with Failure

Warren: It's obvious that Polish personality, as a nation, is totally different than British. I must also say that some of your statements here on the group (not only about the game or anyhow connected with it) changed my mind about Britons (if I can generalize those features) to more negative. I was not saying anything about it because it's not "my ground" here, I treat this group as a group for English natives.

As for the "national features". In my opinion Poles are more similar to southern nations, for me Italians would be the most similar (except other Slavic nations). I would like to hear how Jarek sees it.

So if I may say something about being civilized. I think that you, the "old Europe", need to face the fact, that now nations different than you are entering the UE too. Sorry, we don't want to change.

(To make it clear, I'm totally against the threatening reactions against the referee and find them absolutely stupid.)

Oh and one more thing. You may find it funny but I believe that if we didn't have the features we wouldn't exist as a country or nation today.Rafał D. edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.06.08 o godzinie 10:58
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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That is so fortunate, we're not talking about the history of Europe. We're lucky, the subject is a penalty.
Rafał D.:
As for the "national features". In my opinion Poles are more similar to southern nations, for me Italians would be the most similar (except other Slavic nations). I would like to hear how Jarek sees it.
Sorry for the interruption.
I am a guy in this group, who comes from a place as south as you can go.
Although I understand what you mean, being kind of "hot blooded" or "tough guy" has nothing to do with what we are talking about in here.

Are you sure of what we are talking about?

I am against of threatening anyone who did nothing more than doing his job.

We're not talking about why Polish people sees the referee as the guilty one (because that IS a subject for the sciences like Sociology or History).
We're talking about hate videos, ruining your national image.
You are lucky, I am on your side. But you can not make sure everyone in this world lives in Poland for 7 years, can you?

Do you want to be connected with or to be related to psychopats who are not able to cope with the reality of a single sports event? That is the question you have to answer.
Not the blood types or how 'south' you are. I am the south. I have the blood.

When I see Polish guys playing football in some place Pruszków (close to Lidl), I say: "Oh how sweet... blonde pale guys with sweet faces are playing game", while you think they are the "tough guys". If you'd see what I perceive as "tough guy" (in real life), you would be scared to come accross with THE guy in daylight.

But I haven't seen such videos and productions in my entire (20 years of adult) life.
So if I may say something about being civilized. I think that you, the "old Europe", need to face the fact, that now nations different than you are entering the UE too. Sorry, we don't want to change.
(I feel like your hidden thoughts and feelings started to come out. In the wrong thread)

Does that mean, you want to give the wrong impression and be pictured as vulgar psychopats?
Because that last sentence over there sounded like: "I know I am mentally ill, but I can not be more civilized than I am now. I am a proud terrorizer, and this is my character. Either you accept it or you can go out (?)" ("go out"? Me? But where?)

I am sure you didn't mean that.
And I think, you want to be the part of civilized Europe. I mean, forget about that "old Europe" crap, that's the mouth of an idiot American President.
Do you want to live a civilized life? That's what it is at the end.

Do you want to be presented by/with these news?
Or would you prefer a better image (which is closer to real you) for your own nation?

If these news doesn't disturb you, try being somebody from Arabic tribes living in the outskirts of Lebanon. Then, you can reach to Nirvana, as a person who needs the drive of aggression and facing the trouble. Because then you are 100% terrorist. Even though you are not, even though you have a legitimate passport. They would check you out 4 times at the airports. Very cool image.

Sorry Rafał, if I've been too irritating for you with this message. Now you are free to have bad images about Turkey. Everyone is just like me in Turkey. We say disturbing things that you'd never want to hear, and we kiss the British **ses whenever possible.
That would be a wrong image, but what can I do, this is what you will feel after reading this, maybe.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.06.08 o godzinie 11:52
Rafał D.

Rafał D. Head of Production,
Locon Sp. z o.o.

Temat: Coping with Failure

I'm not talking about the internet flame which could happen, I believe, in every country (done by a groups of teenagers most probably). This I find stupid. I'm talking rather about the fact that here is a opinion that Poles unjustly have something against the decision of the referee. Trust me, only a specific group of people makes this threatening stuff. The medicine student from the "example" simply belongs to this group. I personally know tons of teenagers who find the behaviour stupid. And as for the Prive Minister speach, I find it really unfortunate but this seems to be some kind of characteristic of mr. Tusk already...

And not I am the person who started to reflect the situation on national characteristics ;)

I'm not offended and I like the fact you speak what you think. And it's not about the thoughness, actually I find Nordics more though. It's rather about the impulsivness. We quickly offend and quickly get offended but on the other side forget about it even quicker. And like to "connect" in groups, to socialize, that's why we "unite" under such stupid things like makind offensive pictures sometimes.

BTW, as for hooligans I taught that it's really similar in Poland and UK. So in UK they don't do this kinds of images against "the other side"?

And finally as for the "old Europe". My opinion was made after what I read on this group, not anywhere else...

And to comment it using Mleczko and lighten the atmosphere a bit: http://mleczko.interia.pl/zdjecia/rysunki-kolorowe,105... ;)Rafał D. edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.06.08 o godzinie 12:23
Steve Jones

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This has gone pretty way off topic.

Please continue the theme of the Polish character and the southern male on a new thread.
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Coping with Failure

I don't agree Steve, but you've got the power.

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I think this is an excellent thread.

But Iter why not start a thread yourself branching off from this one?

Quickly, before Grażyna does it on one of her groups.
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Coping with Failure

But I still think that I wasn't off topic in this thread.

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Let's not labour the point.

IMHO, it was a natural progression.

But let's not discuss it further.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 16.06.08 o godzinie 13:13

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Rafał D.:
Warren: It's obvious that Polish personality, as a nation, is totally different than British. I must also say that some of your statements here on the group (not only about the game or anyhow connected with it) changed my mind about Britons (if I can generalize those features) to more negative. I was not saying anything about it because it's not "my ground" here, I treat this group as a group for English natives.

You'd be wrong to treat the group as such.

The vast majority of members are not British.

In fact, I'm pretty sure we have fewer than ten 'Brits' here altogether.

Raf, you're very welcome here, as is everyone else.
Rafał D.

Rafał D. Head of Production,
Locon Sp. z o.o.

Temat: Coping with Failure

Actually I was looking for a group with natives only to be sure I read a "clean" English ;) That is the problem of the internet, it's extremely hard to find it. But the level is pretty high anyway so I really like it.

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Rafał D.:
Actually I was looking for a group with natives only to be sure I read a "clean" English ;) That is the problem of the internet, it's extremely hard to find it. But the level is pretty high anyway so I really like it.

Go to Yahoo! groups. There's your clean English.

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Well if you want 'Brits', you have to put up with our 'warped' mentality and sense of humour.

It's like if I joined a specifically 'Polish' group, I'd have to put up with Poles.

Can't be helped, I'm afraid.

Btw, I believe there are a couple of English groups on GL where the English themselves are largely absent.

But here you've got the genuine article.

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