Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

The key attributes of anyone who wants a career in PMR Consulting

nice and intelligent
good interpersonal skills
Good communication skills
open inquiring mind
self confident
good business awareness
highly motivated/ready to work hard
well organised/good time management
leadership potential
personal integrity
(Angielski)

Some of these things cannot be taught, but educational traditions
and culture make a lot of difference

Which Polish engineering depts are best for teaching such skills and values.

We want people who are capable of giving presentations to senior executives in English, who would welcome the challenge and do it well.

If we are looking for people with these attributes, how should we go about it.

When I gave a talk in AGH in Krakow - about entrepreneurship and starting businesses, the level of engagement was suprising
low (if AGH is a top academy). There were few questions. The majority of students didn't give the impression that they really cared about learning and making a contribution with their knowledge.


pozdrawiam
Richard Lucas
Managing Director
http://pmrconsulting.com

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Richard, the attributes that you look for are not the things that someone can learn. These are the things that you have or not. Maybe you can develop these attributes to make them stronger but thats all.

It's not the way to go to the biggest/best University - you can find such people everywere, even in small city like the one that I live in :)

Good luck :)

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

I strongly agree with Marek - these are attributes which you have or not, you can't learn it.

And when it's about AGH. It's for sure one of the best (some rankings show that it's the best :) ) technical university in Poland.
I don't know if you gave this talk there in English or Polish, but if in English - this could be the key here. I've graduated AGH and from my experience I must say that there is big problem with foreign languages (and from what I know it's very big problem on most technical academies in Poland).
On the other hand - during studies I saw something what I can call "wave effect" - consecutive age groups aren't "identically engaged", let say...

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

I appreciate an alternative view but...

Well I strongly disagree, but of course if someone believes their character and behaviour is something over which they have no control then this will be a self fulfilling prophesy.

Maybe your views are based in the Catholic culture of predestination and fate.

Obviously a personality is based on a mixture of natural characteristics, upbringing and personality. I believe if people want to change themselves for the better they can.

I've taught myself to be more confident and well organised over the years. It is a question of motivation.

It is really bad that there is so little teaching of personal effectiveness skills, these skills can be learned. Skills for life are more important than technical knowledge

Why does Merrill Lynch send all its employees on the http://franklincovey.com courses? Because Americans don't get taught these things either, though they tend to be more optimistic than locals.

I recommend you read Emotional Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman. It has been published in Polish. He argues that success in life depends more on Emotional Intelligence than intellectual ability.
His arguments are powerful.

Most schools/universities are useless at teaching these things. At least in the UK, where I studied 20 years ago.

In Poland there has been a Szkola Liderow, and I heard of leadership courses for school kids in Ukraine. Do you guys really believe that people cannot learn optimism and positive thinking, if you start mixing with and meeting other people who are successful because they believe in their own abilities.

Andersen Consulting - before it became Accenture- used to take History and English Literature Graduates and teach them how to programme in two weeks, and send them off to be IT consultants. People can learn anything if they are motivated.

I wouldn't want to work for Accenture, because of the working lifestyle long hours + weeks away from home (any Accenture staff correct me if I am wrong here) but no one can say they are not successful.

Richard
Prezes
http://pmrcorporate.com

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Sorry Richard but I'm not Catholic... I'm agnostic - so question of my point of view is not based in religion :)

Of course you can "train" character and behavior. But the fact is
that final result of such training is resultant of mentioned training and character traits which comes from "childhood". For sure you can't learn everything.

You're right that personal skills are more important than technical knowledge, and also you're right that there is lack of such courses. It should be changed but at the moment it's like you can see.

About learning of optimism - sorry, but I don't think that it's something what you can learn. I'm natural born optimist (maybe sometimes I just have worse days...) and I tried several times to "infect" friends this positive thinking - unfortunately result was very bad. Of course maybe it was because I'm not qualified "optimism teacher", but anyway...

I think that you wrote very important sentence in your first statement: "educational traditions and culture make a lot of difference". But it doesn't mean that people in Poland are worse that in any other places in the world :)

Small correction - writing "You're right that personal skills are more important than technical knowledge" I had on my mind knowledge which we're getting during studies. But when we'll think about knowledge as professional experience - then it's not so easy...Przemek Ciepły edytował(a) ten post dnia 27.09.07 o godzinie 16:50

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

If we are looking for people with these attributes, how should we go about it.

Hi,

the interpersonal skills are not easy to judge only during an interview. A lot of companies invite the candidates for 1-2 day assesment centers which give much better understanding of personal fetaures. I think it is a good way of recruting new employees, however very expensive.

From my experience you should look for people who has been active in international students organisation like BEST or AIESEC. They, in most cases, can speak english and are not affraid of it. The organisations also teach the presentation skills and give the opportunity to use it in practice. They also have a lot of team building, and interpersonal trainings for their members. Additionaly membership of some student's organisation shows a proactive attitude of the person.

Reffering to the polish mentality... I had a management training by Franklincovey with a group of my co-employees. The trainer was really good and was able to infect the people durring the course, but after the course almost everything collapsed. Maybe 5 of 25 participants took some advantages of the training and brought them to their daily job. Sad but true...

Of course this is only my personal impression, but this is the path I would go.Piotr Wlazło edytował(a) ten post dnia 28.09.07 o godzinie 11:34

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Piotr W.:

Reffering to the polish mentality... I had a management training by Franklincovey with a group of my co-employees. The trainer was really good and was able to infect the people durring the course, but after the course almost everything collapsed. Maybe 5 of 25 participants took some advantages of the training and brought them to their daily job. Sad but true...

This is how the "learning curve" looks like - goes up right after the training and down when the time is passing. That is why each traing shall be have the follow up..

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

But wait a second guys... How can you (or maybe just Piotrek) say that it's Polish mentality?! It's not like this that "learning curve" is something characteristic only for our nation. Everywhere is ilke this. And thanks to this you can select "the best" (mentioned 5 people) from "the rest".

I wouldn't also say that it's the best to look for people who has been active in international students organisations. There is no rule for that. I've never been a member of such organisation - does it mean that I'm worse than they are? I don't think so. I just had other preferences and interests.

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Richard L.:
I appreciate an alternative view but...

Well I strongly disagree, but of course if someone believes their character and behaviour is something over which they have no control then this will be a self fulfilling prophesy.

It is not so easy to put it in this way. We don't have leaders, teachers who would teach us how to be self0 confident. Every time, when little kid wants to say something the teacher says - it's not your turn, sit down. How can this way of teaching make of young people self confident person?

Maybe your views are based in the Catholic culture of predestination and fate.

Faith has nothing to do with this problem.

Obviously a personality is based on a mixture of natural characteristics, upbringing and personality. I believe if people want to change themselves for the better they can.

We live in the country, in which people usually do not believe in themselves and do not want to improved themselves if they are not force to.

I've taught myself to be more confident and well organised over the years. It is a question of motivation.

It is really bad that there is so little teaching of personal effectiveness skills, these skills can be learned. Skills for life are more important than technical knowledge

Why does Merrill Lynch send all its employees on the http://franklincovey.com courses? Because Americans don't get taught these things either, though they tend to be more optimistic than locals.

Polish mentionality is not so charming and nice as the one behind our west border. Our politicians do not give us a chance to be happy, because of EU taxes and far east payments. It is not easy to be happy and emotional positive.

I recommend you read Emotional Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman. It has been published in Polish. He argues that success in life depends more on Emotional Intelligence than intellectual ability.
His arguments are powerful.

Most schools/universities are useless at teaching these things. At least in the UK, where I studied 20 years ago.

In Poland there has been a Szkola Liderow, and I heard of leadership courses for school kids in Ukraine. Do you guys really believe that people cannot learn optimism and positive thinking, if you start mixing with and meeting other people who are successful because they believe in their own abilities.

Andersen Consulting - before it became Accenture- used to take History and English Literature Graduates and teach them how to programme in two weeks, and send them off to be IT consultants. People can learn anything if they are motivated.

Good point: People can learn anything if they are motivated - but... There is very poor level of motivation, students are said to be a worker, somewhere at the end of the buiseness

I wouldn't want to work for Accenture, because of the working lifestyle long hours + weeks away from home (any Accenture staff correct me if I am wrong here) but no one can say they are not successful.

Richard
Prezes
http://pmrcorporate.com

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Hi!

it is really nice conversation ;)

Jakub P.:

It is not so easy to put it in this way. We don't have leaders, teachers who would teach us how to be self0 confident. Every time, when little kid wants to say something the teacher says - it's not your turn, sit down. How can this way of teaching make of young people self confident person?

come we have a lot of opportunity to teach/learn all of these skills
scouting is a really good example of that - and now again people notice it...
what;s more, now we have more and more NGO's (not only international students orgs) so for sure people have opportunity to develop themselves...
but not all of them are interested in working in big companies...

Maybe your views are based in the Catholic culture of predestination and fate.

Faith has nothing to do with this problem.

but "faith in polish way" has a lot or even more :/

Obviously a personality is based on a mixture of natural characteristics, upbringing and personality. I believe if people want to change themselves for the better they can.

We live in the country, in which people usually do not believe in themselves and do not want to improved themselves if they are not force to.

and if you see a glass with some water - it is half full or half empty?
in Poland there is a lot of "sad" people... but as well a lot of "happy" ones ;)

I've taught myself to be more confident and well organised over the years. It is a question of motivation.

++

It is really bad that there is so little teaching of personal effectiveness skills, these skills can be learned. Skills for life are more important than technical knowledge

and "teachers" are not so good :/

Polish mentionality is not so charming and nice as the one behind our west border. Our politicians do not give us a chance to be happy, because of EU taxes and far east payments. It is not easy to be happy and emotional positive.

"7 nawyków skutecznego działania" Coveya - if you are sad/angry, because our president doesn't have bank account - it is only your problem - it doesn't influent on my life...

In Poland there has been a Szkola Liderow, and I heard of leadership courses for school kids in Ukraine. Do you guys really believe that people cannot learn optimism and positive thinking, if you start mixing with and meeting other people who are successful because they believe in their own abilities.

there is a Szkola Liderow - but, what I heard, it is as well "politics" school...
of course it is a great idea and there is much more like that...

Good point: People can learn anything if they are motivated - but... There is very poor level of motivation, students are said to be a worker, somewhere at the end of the buiseness

for sure not in my faculty...

Richard - if you want to do some presentation in Warsaw (especially in Warsaw University of Technology) just send me a private message and we can organize something ;)

Pozdrawiam
P.

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Piotrek, you asked: And if you see a glass with some water - it is half full or half empty?

And my answer would be - this glass is just too big ;) So am I sad or happy one?Przemek Ciepły edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.10.07 o godzinie 13:26

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

Przemek C.:
Piotrek, you asked: And if you see a glass with some water - it is half full or half empty?

And my answer would be - this glass is just too big ;) So am I sad or happy one?Przemek Ciepły edytował(a) ten post dnia 01.10.07 o godzinie 13:26

hehehe ;)
it depend... too big for what?

Pozdrawiam
P.

Temat: Engineers with good interpersonal skills?

For amount of water ;)