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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

I can't put up with stuff like this.

It's complete and utter shite:

> Grazyna N.:
>
> > Przemek Bembnista:
> > zartowanie z polakow w uk to rzecz normalna, sam nie mialem
> > wiele nieprzyjemnych sytuacji ale np czasem zdarzylo sie
> > uslyszec cos niemilego, rozumiem ze brytyjczycy smieja sie w ten
> > sposob nie tylko z nas ale nazywanie sie przy tym tolerancyjnymi
> > jest.. hmm dziwne :)
> >
> > ale jak moze byc inaczej skoro wiekszosc anglikow mysli ze
> > zyjemy w jakis domach z dachami ze strzechy i jezdzimy
> > furmankami po ulicach..jakie bylo zdziwienie jak pokazalem paru
> > anglikom zdjecia z polski :)
> >
> > w kazdym razie nie uwazam anglikow za jakis bardziej
> > tolerancyjny narod niz polacy, roznica jest taka ze polacy
> > otwarcie mowia co mysla o emigrantach a anglicy zachowuja to dla
> > siebie..lub mowia to w waskim gronie :)
> zgadzam sie:)
>
> dodac tylko moge, ze Polacy, ktorzy smia mowic, czy pisac o tym,
> co po prostu widza zyjac w UK uznawani sa (przez niektorych
> tubylcow - nie wszystkich na szczescie) za uprzedzonych,
> ignoratnow, w jednej grupie na GL nawet pojawilo sie slowo
> 'retard' w odniesieniu do tych, co w jaki kolwiek sposob smia
> krytykowac GB... - to, samo w sobie, swiadczy o malej
> tolerancji... :(
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

And this:

Anna Etmanska:

Ok, I'm like so gonna get clobbered for this, but here it is.

I've left most of the other GL forums populated by foreigners. But while I was a member, I noticed the (Polish) need to impress the outsiders. It's understandable to a point, but it got old (and slightly disturbing) rather quickly. And truly, the foreigners don't give a flying f*ck through a rolling donut. And sometimes even laugh behind your back.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

warren whitmore:
I can't put up with stuff like this.

It's complete and utter shite:

Yes it's total bollocks.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Perchance there's a grain of truth in it, Warren.

Yesternight one local kept apologising to you for the weather ;)
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

I am pretty sure that we've covered this topic already in one of the earlier threads. No matter where you go, it takes a very long time to find out what people really think about you or what their outtake is on certain, more personal issues. Nobody is going to come out and say to you - "hey, you know, I think immigrants are a serious issue for a number of reasons" simply because that's rude. They see things from the Polish perspective which means that, yea, of course they got the insight! It's a complete lack of objectivity as well as lack of cultural understanding. During my first couple of years abroad my opinion was very similar to the one above... but after a while I was able to take a step back and see that it was me who was seeing things through Polish glasses. We can definitely tie this with the native vs. non native teachers. Where you have people who don't have the slightest grasp on the culture of languages that they are supposed to be teaching. It works just fine, if communication on the most basic level is required, but during an interaction with actual members of English speaking communities the absolute lack of cultural insight comes out in comments, arguments and exchanges caused by inability to see deeply into what stands behind each statement or comment. Words are not just words, they portray history, culture and beliefs brought on by those very complex aspects. To some a sarcastic joke could come off as an offensive comment if the reference is misunderstood, which is a definite outcome if there is no cultural knowledge.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Rafal W.:
Where you have people who don't have the slightest grasp on the culture of languages that they are supposed to be teaching. It works just fine, if communication on the most basic level is required, but during an interaction with actual members of English speaking communities the absolute lack of cultural insight comes out in comments, arguments and exchanges caused by inability to see deeply into what stands behind each statement or comment. Words are not just words, they portray history, culture and beliefs brought on by those very complex aspects. To some a sarcastic joke could come off as an offensive comment if the reference is misunderstood, which is a definite outcome if there is no cultural knowledge.

That's very true Rafal.

One thing that is often missing is pragmatics, that is people 'get' the literal meaning of the words, but not the intention of the speaker.

Also, people often interpret what is said to them according to their own distorted perception of the world.

If someone is insecure, and imagines everyone is against them, the words of others get interpreted according to this belief.

Therefore, in this context, the most harmless of jokes can become malicious and threatening.

As always, we see what we want and expect to see and hear what we want and expect to hear.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 01:42
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Regarding what Przemek said in his first quote:

"zartowanie z polakow w uk to rzecz normalny".

Well, it simply isn't true.

In my life I've heard jokes about the Irish, Scots, Jews, blacks, Pakis and Italians, some of which were extremely offensive, but never about Poles.

Now maybe people have started telling Polish jokes, I don't know, but I've certainly never heard any myself. Neither has Dave who lives in the UK. It may be that we are lying about this to be polite, but we aren't. There is simply no tradition in the UK of 'Polish' jokes.

Now this isn't to say that no English people are racist, because some are.

We just don't usually tell Polish jokes.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

No polish jokes you say:
Jack Dee, Live at the Apollo,
(Reading SMS at the end) "Lets meet- Marta from Poland... hmmm but i already have a cleaner"

we made it into BBCs "Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps" (one of the first episodes of last series), to tell you the truth i laughed my ars off. So not all jokes are bad...
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Marcin C.:
No polish jokes you say:
Jack Dee, Live at the Apollo,
(Reading SMS at the end) "Lets meet- Marta from Poland... hmmm but i already have a cleaner"

we made it into BBCs "Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps" (one of the first episodes of last series), to tell you the truth i laughed my ars off. So not all jokes are bad...

It's a bit much to suggest its a normal thing.

That's not to say that no-one has ever made such a joke.

It's just that I've honestly never heard any, and if that's true for me, presumably it must also be true for a significant number of other English people.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 02:46
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

you have to take into account that we are sensitive about polish jokes, we always will be critical no matter if the joke is funny or just rude... that's our nature unfortunately. I love stand up comedy, i know millions of jokes and when somebody on Friday at the pub is trying to replace Mexicans with poles while adding "they are bloody everywhere" it will stick with me for a while cause the meaning meant to be at least a bit rude... I'm not saying everybody does it, weirdly enough only joke about Poles I've heard at work came from Irish man and it was funny as hell ;]

I understand British folk are a bit tired with us, i know that Poles tend to stick with each other so they are a bit hard to get to know closer but I cant quite figure it out why most of the jokes are meant to be rude... you people came up with Monty Python for crying out loud! At least do jokes about us in that style ;]
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Andrzej Pieniazek

Andrzej Pieniazek

Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Marcin C.:
you have to take into account that we are sensitive about polish jokes

In Germany my best German friends would always tell me the newest "Polenwitze" and we all would laugh at them. So there was a time that there were plenty jokes about cars (like "Polish travel ad" - "Come to Poland your car is already there..") that eventually disappeared... and so on..;)
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Marcin C.:
I'm not
saying everybody does it, weirdly enough only joke about Poles I've heard at work came from Irish man and it was funny as hell ;]

It would be pretty strange if a million or so people of another nationality came to Britain, and no-one ever, or at any time, made a single joke about them.

Having said this, I can only repeat that Poles are not a traditional target for British humour.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

There's more:

Monika Skowrońka:

"najgorsze, ze Brytyjczycy, szczegolnie mlodzi sa ciemni - nie mozna tego nazwac inaczej, sorry, ale UK dla mnie jest krajem ciemnych ludzi"

The woman gets a round of applause from Grazyna.

http://www.goldenline.pl/forum/londyn/448448warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 10:30
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Earlier we are told:

"polacy otwarcie mowia co mysla o emigrantach a anglicy zachowuja to dla siebie..lub mowia to w waskim gronie :)"

but then:

"jeszcze troche i nawet tutaj nie bedzie mozna otwarcie porozmawiac"

Apparently, Dave and myself shouldn't be reading this.

Are they too stupid to see the contradiction here.

And it is us who are apparently 'ciemni'.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

That is such a depressing thread. I can't believe that their views are representative of Polish people in Britain.
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

I can't believe that the person enthusiastically applauding fuckwitted Monika's ignorant comments is moderator of the largest English language group on GL.

Brak mi slow.

Anyway, Dave, we've made our points, leave it now.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 10:54
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Anna S.

Anna S. Asystentka Rzecznika
Praw Obywatelskich,
Biuro Rzecznika ...

Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

I think that you all have your rights in that kind of discussion. Some Poles met horrible and false English people and some Poles met wonderful ones - it makes their point of view. Your experiences are making yourself.

We have to keep respect to one another and that's all. You can critisize some Poles and some Poles can critisize some English :) Everyone should be polite in that type of discussions and I think everything will be allright then. Maybe I'm naive ;PAnna S. edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 10:59
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Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Anna S.:
I think that you all have your rights in that kind of discussion. Some Poles met horrible and false English people and some Poles met wonderful ones - it makes their point of view. Your experiences are making yourself.

We have to keep respect to one another and that's all. You can critisize some Poles and some Poles can critisize some English :) Everyone should be polite in that type of discussions and I think everything will be allright then. Maybe I'm naive ;P[edited]Anna

I know you mean well Anna, but I would disagree here.

It's possible to argue against intelligent and polite arguments with intelligent and polite words, but what about profoundly stupid opinions?

Also, I know much of what is written here is untrue.

I know what English people say about Poles in private.

And it isn't anything like what some people in the thread are claiming.
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Anna S.

Anna S. Asystentka Rzecznika
Praw Obywatelskich,
Biuro Rzecznika ...

Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

warren whitmore:
Anna S.:
I think that you all have your rights in that kind of discussion. Some Poles met horrible and false English people and some Poles met wonderful ones - it makes their point of view. Your experiences are making yourself.

We have to keep respect to one another and that's all. You can critisize some Poles and some Poles can critisize some English :) Everyone should be polite in that type of discussions and I think everything will be allright then. Maybe I'm naive ;P[edited]Anna

I know you mean well Anna, but I would disagree here.

It's possible to argue against intelligent and polite arguments with intelligent and polite words, but what about profoundly stupid opinions?

Also, I know much of what is written here is untrue.

I know what English people say about Poles in private.

What do they say? It's very interesting for me :)

And it isn't anything like what some people in the thread are claiming.
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
Trainer, Translator,
Proofreader

Temat: I can't put up with stuff like this:

Anna S.:
I think that you all have your rights in that kind of discussion. Some Poles met horrible and false English people and some Poles met wonderful ones - it makes their point of view. Your experiences are making yourself.

We have to keep respect to one another and that's all. You can critisize some Poles and some Poles can critisize some English :) Everyone should be polite in that type of discussions and I think everything will be allright then. Maybe I'm naive ;PAnna S. edytował(a) ten post dnia 17.08.08 o godzinie 10:59

You can criticise some Poles and someBrits, but how would you take it if I was to wite something like this:

Polish people, particulary the younger ones, are a bunch of wankers. Sorry to say this, but Poland is a nation of wankers.

Imagine if I wrote that and meant what I wrote (disclaimer: I don't mean it, it's just an example used for argumentation).

Would you think to yourself:

A. Steve's exercising the right to express his opinion and good luck to him!

or

B. Steve is at best a tactless fool and at worst a total moron.

Ania, which would it be, A or B?
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