Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Can we objectively say that some music is better than others?

Any opinions?

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Rhetoric course or what? :)

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

In my opinion... NO, you can't.
It's a matter of what you like. And this can be for everyone something different.
In french we say 'les gouts et les couleurs, on ne discutent pas'.
(About tastes and colors we don't discuss/argue)

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

I'm just curious about others opinions on this.

They could be common sense or theoretical opinions.

What do you think, Magda?

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Guy C.:
In my opinion... NO, you can't.
It's a matter of what you like. And this can be for everyone something different.
In french we say 'les gouts et les couleurs, on ne discutent pas'.
(About tastes and colors we don't discuss/argue)

I thought you were a Fleming.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

warren whitmore:

Guy C.:
In my opinion... NO, you can't.
It's a matter of what you like. And this can be for everyone something different.
In french we say 'les gouts et les couleurs, on ne discutent pas'.
(About tastes and colors we don't discuss/argue)

I thought you were a Fleming.

Yes I'm, but French is our second language :) and this is a French expression

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

warren whitmore:
What do you think, Magda?

There's hardly anything "objective" in tastes, fads, fashion, views, opinions, beliefs, attitudes and all the buzz that the society generates... That's why I consider your question purely rhetorical :)

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

I think that there is only good and bad music, but only we can decide which one is which. What you may consider a mind blowing piece will make someone else cringe. It's a matter of taste. We can definitely judge music by the complexity of it, which does not make it good, we can say that an artist is a great musician which also is not a recipe for a hit.
Most real cutting edge stuff is usually bound to the underground and eventually people sort of discover it when they are ready for it. Or it gets pulled out by the mainstream media and promoted as something phresh and new. This process usually takes about 10 to 15 years... from the time that someone actually puts out something rather innovative and new and the time that it gets discovered by the main stream. I am actually having this same exact discussion on a different board haha.. my examples were - UK's summer of love 1988-1991 and the punk scene.
I think that a lot has changed since the introduction of mass produced pseudo super stars who due to overwhelming PR and capital can over shadow any real talent that's out there.
Pop culture has created this image of fame and success portrayed by these talentless drones, music became "user friendly" and sort of asexual in a sense where it is safe at "any speed" so to speak.
There is a very thick line between an artist and a pop star or a pop icon but it is a line which majority of people fail to see.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Rafal W.:
I think that there is only good and bad music, but only we can decide which one is which...

I think I may easily drag this statement to the one that Tomasz made in "REAL music" thread in Anglosphere.
Any adjectives before music/art would be an objectionable one. This statement can not hold water.
You are free to think in any way, but you can't stand behind it for too long I guess.

There's no "good", "real", "tasteful", "red" music. Not applicable.

So my answer is clearn, on the subject of the thread I guess.
Short answer: No.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Rafal W.:
There is a very thick line between an artist and a pop star or a pop icon but it is a line which majority of people fail to see.

This one is also objectionable.

How do you define "pop"?
Are you against of all things becoming "popular"?
Is what Sting does can be called as "Jazz"?
Is U2 a "bad" band?

Fairly raletive.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

ilter K.:

Rafal W.:
I think that there is only good and bad music, but only we can decide which one is which...

I think I may easily drag this statement to the one that Tomasz made in "REAL music" thread in Anglosphere.
Any adjectives before music/art would be an objectionable one. This statement can not hold water.
You are free to think in any way, but you can't stand behind it for too long I guess.

There's no "good", "real", "tasteful", "red" music. Not applicable.

So my answer is clearn, on the subject of the thread I guess.
Short answer: No.

I think you misunderstood my meaning. What I am saying is that it is all RELATIVE and it really depends on the receiver. Good, Real or whatever you want to call it; it is simply a way to describe it from where you stand on the subject. It reminds me of Stephen Hawkins’s explanation for the theory of relativity - "if you are playing ping pong and the ball is moving at 10mph, while riding on a train which is moving at 100mph, how fast is the ball really moving? Is it 110mph - the perception that anyone standing outside of the train would have, or 10mph, which would be your point of you - both answers are correct in this case".

Know what I mean?

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

ilter K.:

Rafal W.:
There is a very thick line between an artist and a pop star or a pop icon but it is a line which majority of people fail to see.

This one is also objectionable.

How do you define "pop"?

That which is widely available and fairly easily accessible to all. Pop = popular = "user friendly"

Are you against of all things becoming "popular"?

Not at all, pop is a great way to introduce people to other things that are out there, although unfortunately majority of people tend to stick with the Top 40 Billboards because they don’t really want to bother looking any further. When I think Top 40, I think of a menu at a Chinese restaurant where the menu is not translated. You know the basic things that every place offers, but you don’t quite know how to ask for something “other than”.

Is what Sting does can be called as "Jazz"?
Is U2 a "bad" band?

I am not that familiar with Sting’s music after The Police and even that was mainly by osmosis, so I wouldn’t be able to answer that question. As per U2 being a bad band… well it depends on the receiver. Some people lose their mind when they hear the Back street boys… are they a good band? What constitutes a good band? Back in the day it was the pure talent, the way the artist – and yes some time ago bands where full of them.. you know, people who know how to play instruments, compose music and write their own lyrics… but things have changed and now it’s pretty much a shit load of marionettes stylized, created and artificially inflated by the demand of various markets. Is that good music? To some it is, to some Britney is the pillar of Pop… to others, like myself, she’s nothing more than a pretty girl with an OK voice who is neither an artist nor a musician yet she’s made millions pretending to be both. I think Pop has changed it’s meaning since the “glorious” days of MJ, Madonna and others… it now is the cheaply mass produced product of the consumer driven market. People didn’t lower their standards, standards were lowered for them.. they just chose to accept that and move on rather than dig and peal this onion of music which at this point is thousands of layers thick.

Fairly raletive.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Rafal W.:
I think you misunderstood my meaning.

That's probable... but I think I still didn't get the word-by-word meaning of your sentence.
I for one, not able to call any kind of music/band/artist as "good"s or "bad"s.
For me, there's no 'bad music', or a 'good band'.
Although I know, these things might just have the [adjective + noun] format, I don't understand the meaning of it. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Rafal W.:
Not at all, pop is a great way to introduce people to other things that are out there,

That's interesting. But I think I know what you mean. And I think I don't agree with you.
Imagine this...
I am very well "introduced" to pop, rock, hard 'n heavy, jazz and classical music. I make music for a living.
I am still interested in Pop music and heavily follow it.

... although unfortunately majority of people tend to stick with the Top 40 Billboards because they don’t really want to bother looking any further.

Well, if you feel like it, you do it. It is that simple.
Why not to stick with Top40?
It just means "If it made it to Top40, I might like it too".
Why to torture yourself, while only thing you want to know is "which is good for common sense, might be good for me too" type of thought?
I like following Billboard. It introduces me to a wide variety of acts.

[...] Some people lose their mind when they hear the Back street boys… are they a good band?

No, they have special terms for such acts: Boyband.
So you know what you're supposed to get.

What constitutes a good band? Back in the day it was the pure talent, the way the artist
– and yes some time ago bands where full of them..

"Good band" can only mean, a group of musicians who sound harmonious/good when they play together, in the context of music.
The rest of the definitions will be dismissed, I am afraid.
If not, you'll be again swimming in the "relative" sea.
For me, you don't need a outragous amount of talent to be in a "good band". Just do your work, you'll be a good member (hehe) in a good band. Maybe.
Work of art, and being a good band are totally different things. The term of "Good band" can be used for the bands who are performing live well.

... but things have changed and now it’s pretty much a shit load of marionettes stylized,

Although I understand what you mean, and share your thoughts, I have to remind you about 1 fact:
You are getting old.
hehe.
This IS the fact.
There're thousands of brilliant guys doing thousands of cool things which doesn't interest you AT ALL.

I don't have time now for the rest, but I'd like to follow and comment more when/if it is needed :)

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

ilter K.:

I am still interested in Pop music and heavily
follow it.

It's a matter of taste and interests. For example - I love electronic music, there are certain styles of it that I dislike, like house or trance for example, but since majority of my free time in the past 20 years I've spent searching for electronic music and attending electronic music events, I know a lot about those genres as well and since a lot of artists interchange genres quite a lot, and the electronic music community is a pretty versatile one where you'd have house, breaks, dnb or electro djs and producers playing same events I've been heavily exposed to all those styles. I wouldn't say that I follow it, but it's a matter of - again – osmosis and of course curiosity. I’ve gone to events in the mid and early 90’s where trance was predominant and out of sheer curiosity I sometimes like to check out what’s out there and how it’s progressed.

Why not to stick with Top40?

Because by doing so, you are limiting your music horizons. Just because someone keeps handing you the same old cup of coffee everyday, telling you that THIS here is the best coffee in the world does it mean that it really is and if you really love coffee, wouldn’t you want to see and check for yourself if this is in fact the best coffee in the world? Especially that … taste is a very subjective topic as we’ve already agreed.

Billboard, MTV, VH1 and other music moguls are and always have been driven by the market that they’ve created. I think that we’ve covered this topic already on how majority of artists get to the #1 Billboard spot. Stores world wide receive complementary copies of singles and album previews, which in turn they put on shelves at $1 or $2 a piece, in a weeks time they sell over a million copies – who’s not going to pick up a $1 CD if it fits the genre that they like? It’s a cheap move, cheap trick and people buy into it… sad state of things that music concerns must rely on these tactics instead of actual talent…but that’s just how the booger sticks.

So to answer your question with another – why limit yourself with Billboard when millions of artists world wide are available at your fingertips… literally.

It just means "If it made it to Top40, I might
like it too".
Why to torture yourself, while only thing you want to know is "which is good for common sense, might be good for me too" type of thought?

That’s not the case however. It’s curiosity… you know, the natural thing that us home sapiens have imbedded in our DNA and places like the Billboard try to rid off.
Curiosity is a great thing, especially in the music field. It can only lead to some fantastic discoveries. I am sure that I am preaching to the choir at this point, but some of the most amazing, unreal and genius sounds are well beyond the reaches of mass media.

>the Back

street boys… are they a good band?

No, they have special terms for such acts: Boyband.
So you know what you're supposed to get.

Of course, they are however or were to be exact topping Billboard charts for a while.

"Good band" can only mean, a group of musicians who sound harmonious/good when they play together, in the context of music.
The rest of the definitions will be dismissed, I am afraid.
If not, you'll be again swimming in the "relative" > sea.

Sort of like the Sex Pistols and the mistery of Sid Vicious - a bass player who didn't know how to play bass.

For me, you don't need a outragous amount of talent to be in a "good band". Just do your work, you'll be a good member (hehe) in a good band. Maybe.
Work of art, and being a good band are totally different things. The term of "Good band" can be used for the bands who are performing live well.

Agreed 100%

thoughts[/b], I have to remind you about 1 fact:
You are getting old.

shh...

hehe.
This IS the fact.
There're thousands of brilliant guys doing thousands of cool things which doesn't interest you AT ALL.

But it does! haha... I try to find new things all the time... but music is my lifetime partner so it would be unfair to expect same from everyone.

I don't have time now for the rest, but I'd like to follow and comment more when/if it is needed :)

Always a pleasure :)

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Not at all, pop is a great way to introduce people to other things that are out there, although unfortunately majority of people tend to stick with the Top 40 Billboards because they don’t really want to bother looking any further.

Interesting discussion between you and Ilter :). I completely agree with Ilter's opinion.
Rafal, when you write 'they don't really want to bother looking any further' ... I don't think it's correct. I'm not a music expert (like you or Ilter), like most of the people, I'm open to listen to other kind of music but when I don't like it, I will not continue to listen. And I'm pretty sure it's with most of the people: they only listen what they like to hear and not because they don't want to take the effort to listen other kind of music. And to what kind of music you listen, can depend on the mood you are, the day, ...

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

I don't know why the man who makes CRAPPY music decided to take part in this thread, I really don't.. ;-P

Obviously, EVERYTHING we talk about is subjective.

Books, music, clothes, etc.

Has this anything to do with good taste?




Is that a good movie? Is it normal to show people's suffering for the FOURTH time? How much is enough?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8u2WifJLDc

How about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4jsa1x1Zg

Should THAT be considered an artist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIUzS756xLc

To me - everything I have presented is NOTHING.
It has a zero meaning to me or even a negative value.
Still, MOST of the people buy these kind of "things" (funny to call human beings things still they are creations, nothing more) because people like it plain and simple. Access to really good movies/music is rather restricted and people are lazy - that's so.. homo sapiens - to achieve the most with the least effort (including passing genes) and that's why people do not get the best of schools/work/their lives.

Yes, I might not be tollerant, I believe in good and bad taste in EVERYTHING and never will I call Mandaryna or Ich Troje artists.

NO

WAY

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Guy C.:

Not at all, pop is a great way to introduce people to other things that are out there, although unfortunately majority of people tend to stick with the Top 40 Billboards because they don’t really want to bother looking any further.

Interesting discussion between you and Ilter :). I completely agree with Ilter's opinion.
Rafal, when you write 'they don't really want to bother looking any further' ... I don't think it's correct. I'm not a music expert (like you or Ilter), like most of the people, I'm open to listen to other kind of music but when I don't like it, I will not continue to listen. And I'm pretty sure it's with most of the people: they only listen what they like to hear and not because they don't want to take the effort to listen other kind of music. And to what kind of music you listen, can depend on the mood you are, the day, ...

But of course, I am not denying it at all. All I am saying is that due to the overwhelming amount of mediocre music, the general public ends up missing out on some really great tunes. Nobody expects you to listen to what you don’t like; the fact of the matter is that there could be and actually is a huge array of artists that will forever remain unknown to the overwhelming majority, simply because they are denied air time by huge corporations and those who run them.
We could list an entire list of genres that to most people don’t even exist. It is a very vicious market and just like any market it is driven by the all mighty $.
At least once a week I find another artist or even few artists from some obscure labels, and parts of the world that play music that is simply mind blowing yet we would never, ever find them on charts of any mainstream so called music related sites.
For example, how many Vietnamese musicians can we name? Better yet, how many styles of Vietnamese traditional music can we recall? Why not? There is an amazing style of traditional Vietnamese fiddle music that can easily sell anywhere else in the world and is just as good as any other classical style. Yet we will never find out about any of the artists, simply because they lack the funding and the interest from major corporate sponsors.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

Guy C.:
[...] I'm not a music expert (like you or Ilter), like most of the people, I'm open to listen to other kind of music but when I don't like it, I will not continue to listen...

Correction!!
We're not music experts! :))

I agree with the other things you wrote, and thank you for your opinions.

I like the opinions of Rafał btw. And I believe he has a "taste" which is somehow closer to mine. But not because we like to listen to similar things. Actually I believe we don't listen to same stuff at all. But I can understand his point of view on "looking for something special" and we're reading eachother since sometime now.
He is little bit stubborn (or opinionated) about music styles, but I respect that. HAHA.

Temat: Is there such a thing as good taste in music?

But of course, I am not denying it at all. All I am saying is that due to the overwhelming amount of mediocre music, the general public ends up missing out on some really great tunes.

Again who decides what is mediocre music and what are great tunes ? What is for you mediocre is for me maybe Super or the other way.

Nobody expects you to listen to what you don’t like; the fact of > the matter is that there could be and actually is a huge array
of artists that will forever remain unknown to the overwhelming majority, simply because they are denied air time by huge corporations and those who run them.
We could list an entire list of genres that to most people don’t even exist. It is a very vicious market and just like any market it is driven by the all mighty $.
At least once a week I find another artist or even few artists from some obscure labels, and parts of the world that play music that is simply mind blowing yet we would never, ever find them on charts of any mainstream so called music related sites.
For example, how many Vietnamese musicians can we name? Better yet, how many styles of Vietnamese traditional music can we recall? Why not? There is an amazing style of traditional Vietnamese fiddle music that can easily sell anywhere else in the world and is just as good as any other classical style. Yet we will never find out about any of the artists, simply because they lack the funding and the interest from major corporate sponsors.

Fully agree Rafal. A lot of music (pop-music) in top-charts is sponsered ... But if people doesn't like this music, they will look for other music. At least I do :)